.509 292 108 in 440

-
M

mhuppertz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2011
Messages
252
Reaction score
43
Location
Tijeras, NM
I once ran a .509 cam in a Cuda with a 383 at a measured 10.6:1, and once I figured out it needed like 17deg initial but low 30's total it ran like a scalded hog (except below 3k, tight converter). After 30 years I am putting together a 440 for my '69 Dart GT, shooting for 11:1 with .035" quench and big valves with pocket work and deep matching. I want to run the same cam again because it works so well with stock rockers and iron heads. I am assuming the added ci's will tame it a little, but I loved the rasty idle and don't have power brakes anyway.
Question, has anyone run this cam in a 440 and how hard did it run?
 
Last edited:
My buddy had one in 69 dart with a 10:1 440, stock rebuild 906 heads, rpm intake, 3.23 gears, automatic, tti headers, 750 Holley dp, stock 14 inch rims and tires, ran 12.20s @ 116/117
 
I had one in my 440/493. The idle was still a bit choppy but the car did run strong.
 
Great cam . We ran it a 440 cu.in. Coronet high 11's, low 12's with factory rockers and pushrods for couple years . Eventually rockers gave up but still good performance. You are correct , can starts working about 3k., rpm. Needs converter and gears
 
383Scampman said:
Great cam . We ran it a 440 cu.in. Coronet high 11's, low 12's with factory rockers and pushrods for couple years . Eventually rockers gave up but still good performance. You are correct , can starts working about 3k., rpm. Needs converter and gears
Click to expand...

I loved it in my '74 'Cuda with manual valve body 727 and solid mounts.
Have an A833 for the Dart, so no worries about getting out of the hole!
That was my favorite cam of any car I had, except for a custom Crower I had in a Hemi Road Runner (wish I had that one back!).
 
I ran it in a 367 at 11.3Scr,with Eddies, and a 4-speed. it was dynomite from about 4000 to 6500, and was still pulling strong at 7200. Yeah the bottom-end was soft, below 2000,so I got rid of it. First time out;Car went 12.9@106 with a 2.2 60ft on street BFGs at 3650#. 3.55 gears,topping out in third.Strong cam,you bet.
I'm not sure a 440 would be called soft down there,lol;it has a lot more cubes.
 
Probably the most used cam in a street strip 440. Nasty sound and killer midrange. I would run at least a 3000 converter or a 4 speed. Advance it like said above. Ran it in a 440 best shift point was 5800 to 6000.
 
Still have mine in the 383 advanced 4 so 104 I reckon. Choppy at idle but pulls all the way to 7k. 3800 convertor!
 
1969383S said:
Still have mine in the 383 advanced 4 so 104 I reckon. Choppy at idle but pulls all the way to 7k. 3800 convertor!
Click to expand...
I sure loved it in my 383, the owner of the local Mopar Performance shop still tells the story of hearing a screaming sound outside (we were neighbors) and went out to look only to find the neighborhood in a total white out from my tire smoke (line lock). Lost first and reverse right after that!
 
mhuppertz said:
Do you remember what Springs you are running? Stock rockers?
Click to expand...

I can look or just find the DC catalog online for the recommended spring for that cam. Hemi double with damper, 3690933 maybe? I will have to go look online and check. One thing for sure if they are not installed at the correct height you will not be happy! And use the titanium retainers, assuming they are still available.
 
Last edited:
Choose valve springs carefully.

Stock rockers will last a while, best to find some adj iron rockers.

I agree with getting the 108LSA cam and I'd even install it as far ahead as 100
 
crackedback said:
Choose valve springs carefully.

Stock rockers will last a while, best to find some adj iron rockers.

I agree with getting the 108LSA cam and I'd even install it as far ahead as 100
Click to expand...

I want it to rev though. The factory stamped rockers are very light and with just the right valve spring should rev quite well straight up. I may have to pop for an adjustable cam gear and play different advances.
 
It won't rev at all when the pushrods start popping through the cups.
Without the adjustable rockers your engine is at the mercy of the factory lifter preload. If you rev the engine to exceed the springs ability to control the valve train, the lifter pumps up, and then the rpm goes flat.If your lucky, that's all that will happen.
You wanna play, you gots to pay.
 
Last edited:
ZBAT in Jacksonville, Fl. Did my 906 heads with the new 33 springs in 88. I supplied and they set them up by seat pressure specs from? First spin around the block and all I got was float city! Pulled the heads and shimmed the springs to Mopars recommended spring installed height and a different animal was born. The OP must have had something similar cause that cam can be lot's of fun!
 
AJ/FormS said:
It won't rev at all when the pushrods start popping through the cups.
Without the adjustable rockers your engine is at the mercy of the factory lifter preload. If you rev the engine to exceed the springs ability to control the valve train, the lifter pumps up, and then the rpm goes flat.If your lucky, that's all that will happen.
You wanna play, you gots to pay.
Click to expand...
I plan on shimming the shafts to get the right preload.
 
mhuppertz said:
I plan on shimming the shafts to get the right preload.
Click to expand...

This is not the proper way to do it!
Shimming the rocker shafts is to correct geometry.
Installing the correct valve springs,sometimes shimmed, is to control the valve train.
Installing the correct length pushrods controls the lifter preload. Controlling the lifter preload is only necessary to compensate for inadequacies in the springs, or for guys like me who like to abuse their engines and rev them to within a hair of failure!
Adjustable rocker arms are to help in setting up the geometry, and to compensate for wear in the various parts over time.And to better resist failure from abuse, or excessive spring pressure, which typically pops the pushrods thru the rockerarm cups. When that happens it can escalate to other major damage.
Adjustable rockers are also handy to have when swapping to different thickness gaskets. This is still not the proper way to handle that, but it works.
 
Last edited:
AJ/FormS said:
This is not the proper way to do it!
Shimming the rocker shafts is to correct geometry.
Installing the correct valve springs,sometimes shimmed, is to control the valve train.
Installing the correct length pushrods controls the lifter preload. Controlling the lifter preload is only necessary to compensate for inadequacies in the springs, or for guys like me who like to abuse their engines and rev them to within a hair of failure!
Adjustable rocker arms are to help in setting up the geometry, and to compensate for wear in the various parts over time.And to better resist failure from abuse, or excessive spring pressure, which typically pops the pushrods thru the rockerarm cups. When that happens it can escalate to other major damage.
Adjustable rockers are also handy to have when swapping to different thickness gaskets. This is still not the proper way to handle that, but it works.
Click to expand...


Gotta mostly agree with this ^^^^^^^!!!!!

I would not shim the rocker shafts. Ma par put recipes out there for us! They included cam grind packages with cam, springs, lifters and rocker/spring combos that were tested and proven to work! If they were installed per directions a reasonable result could be expected short of TDC timing. They may have recommend adjustable rockers for this package but I do not believe it was a requirement or I would have had them when putting the 383 together long ago. Installed spring height per spec for the recommended spring used generally gives the results desired.
 
Last edited:
I must have had the luck of the simple minded then. I degreed the cam, installed straight up, ran the springs that were suggested my mother for the .509, checked installed height but they were all pretty close, and ran the tar out of that 383.
The 30 years since without a hot Mopar and constant research has made me more cagey. I appreciate the advise. I have limited resources and can't afford decent adjustable rockers, so if the preload is off (likely) then I will just have some pushrods cut. If the contact area of the rockers on the valves is off (slightly possible because of larger valves, but unlikely) then I will have to shim the rocker shafts. I have basically one shot, want to get the biggest bang for the buck without doing something stupid. I wI'll take all the advice I can get. Appreciate you guys and gals.
 
mhuppertz said:
I must have had the luck of the simple minded then. I degreed the cam, installed straight up, ran the springs that were suggested my mother for the .509, checked installed height but they were all pretty close, and ran the tar out of that 383.
The 30 years since without a hot Mopar and constant research has made me more cagey. I appreciate the advise. I have limited resources and can't afford decent adjustable rockers, so if the preload is off (likely) then I will just have some pushrods cut. If the contact area of the rockers on the valves is off (slightly possible because of larger valves, but unlikely) then I will have to shim the rocker shafts. I have basically one shot, want to get the biggest bang for the buck without doing something stupid. I wI'll take all the advice I can get. Appreciate you guys and gals.
Click to expand...


Good plan on the budget! Mopar did the work for us! This is how I have always approached it until things did not work then backed up and re-evaluated things.

There are better grinds available as the technology is at least 35 years old but old school is cool!
 
Last edited:
I ran this cam in my current 440 the first go round. I don't like the cam. I prefer solid cams. I found it to have a fairly strong midrange but was disappointing everywhere else. I ran it with 3:73 gears and a 3500 convertor.

I swapped it out for my old reliable MPP 284, .528 solid. Much better idle and all around power. Car ran low 12's with the .509 cam and 11.70's with the solid and was much more pleasant on the street.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top