6 cylinder gurus... need opinion

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moper

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One of my weak points are the slants. And I'm torn between staying slant, and going V8 in my '65. It's easier to stay 6 and I've got no real problem with doing so. But I'm trying to keep the initial costs down. The 225 idea (I have a 170 now) has to be cheap, because the V8 swap at this point is free for me, besides the additional labor to rebuild a V8 '65 904... So knowing that... I've been looking for a free or ultra cheap 225. Thought it would be easy, but it hasnt been. Now I have a line on a '76 that has one. Not sure of the condition. So, I need to know... Is that '76 model engine a "good one" by you guys? I was looking for forged crank and prefered the super six, but I think the super six was only later... As I said - Not my strong point. So what do you think? I can get the whole car for somewhere around $500, and there's a few other trinkets on it (like the disc brakes) that will help pay for it. what are the ups and downs of a '76?
 
up sides: forged crank, no drool tubes on the head, the improved combustion chamber design, solid lifters.
down side: no super six, came one year later.
 
'76 disc brakes are nice.

If you have your heart set on an earlier motor, try a www.car-part.com search. Remember to search something pre-'68 as well as something post-'68 to get all the applicable hits.

First year for Super Six was '77 in North America. Only difference is intake manifold, carburetor, choke thermostat, air cleaner, and throttle/kickdown details, which means you can "Super Six" any slant-6.

Forged crank up to midyear '76, cast crank after that. Unless you are going X-Treem racing, there's nothing the matter with a cast-crank engine. If your '65 is an automatic, you'll need to remember to install the bushing that adapts the '68-up large crank counterbore to the '67-down small torque converter nose.

Wanna beef up the slant-6? You'll hear the name "Clifford" come up, but be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described, and a lot of it is not even slightly cost-effective. The good news is that you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.
 
Thanks Guys. Dan - Yeah, I've read pretty much all the posts on Cliffords, and I'm a lurker at slantsix.org as I'm trying gleen what I can. I do have some ideas for any 225 swap... I'd prefer a 4bbl, it will more than likely end up with some sort of NO2 system, and I think I'd prefer the long tube Hooker headers. Plus, I've thought about offset grinding the crank to pring the pistons to zero or as close as I can... I have no idea how far down they are...lol. I've seen Erson's catalog and I've toyed with the idea of having something more modern ground into a used cam... Has anyone done that before? I don't know what the limits are for that, but I'm not a big fan of what's available cam-wise for these. I do plan some port work as I know there are "free" gains there. Otherwise it's basically a ring and bearing type deal so my '65 has a bit more pep. It's also getting an 8.8 rear disc swap and some better gears. The goal is something that is fun to pop the hood at cruise nights and that is much more fun to drive.
Thanks for the help so far!
 
Ok,
Another possibility - What about an industrial 225? Out of some sort of lift unit? It looks pretty much the same, but has some additional oil lines I thin kfor a cooler? Better? Worse? any thoughts?
 
moper said:
Ok,
Another possibility - What about an industrial 225? Out of some sort of lift unit? It looks pretty much the same, but has some additional oil lines I thin kfor a cooler? Better? Worse? any thoughts?
Click to expand...

What's inside an industrial 225 depends on its build date -- same as a car/truck engine.
 
slantsixdan said:
What's inside an industrial 225 depends on its build date -- same as a car/truck engine.
Click to expand...

now what do you mean?? what else could be in there?? i know they had propane/natural gas fuel systems but other cool setups?
 
From what I have heard,propane is like fuel injection,minimal bore wear.Might check it out,if you can find one.
 
Abodybomber said:
From what I have heard,propane is like fuel injection,minimal bore wear.Might check it out,if you can find one.
Click to expand...

that and no buildup in the cyl... forklifts had them... also some industrial setup's... but dan seemed to say there were other differences between normal and industrial slants, which was what i was interested about...
 
Myself included,805.If Chrysler should have re engineered any motor to survive the new times,this one is it.
 
805moparkid said:
now what do you mean??
Click to expand...

I mean, the industrial engines had the same hard parts (cast or forged crank, solid or hydro lifters, gasket vs. taper seat spark plugs, etc.) as the car/truck engines, depending on production date.

I know they had propane/natural gas fuel systems
Click to expand...

Some of them did, others had standard gasoline carburetors. There were all kinds of configuration options…engine speed governors, flameproof ignition setups, auxiliary drives, sparkproof alternators, etc. etc. depending on the intended application.
 
Yeah, I was hoping there was something special too...lol. But sounds like they were all built strong enough to not need anything special...lol.
 
if its a re ring...then ur stuck with the regular 225 rods,pistons.
I'd mill the block .036 before it go's together and then the head .024, then do some 318 valves, not the 1.70/1.44..but if those r all u can get or make work, then fine.
Since u know a lil about porting,, ill tell u this...DO NOT RAISE THE ROOF MUCH.lol...u'll hit water on the low side of the guide as well..lol...the floor/bowl/ssr is where u find the most cfm gain....funny ports they are. 'ill be experimenting some more with them to get ready for an up comming job'
I would also 'done this at home' cross drill the crank for full time oiling and at the same time keep the standard main bearing and surface so that it all stays together and even runs a lil cooler. only has 4 mains and an 85 lb crank flying around..lol..btw u have to go through the convertor pilot register to get that last main to rod drilled through.
You can also make or buy a windage tray, weld a baffle into the sump with vents for drain back.

The super 6 intake is nice...nice and heavy.lol...but the header add on will lighten it a lil at the same time. I like the long tube heads...i used the MP one for my 71 swinger...but u need the early style.

Also the head gasket 'between 3/4 near the intake side can be opened up to the water passage, this helps the those cylinders cool better 'they tend to run hotter for obvious reasons'

as for cams?
yeah the ones offered sound crummy.lol...but these dont like to rev without a lot of compression and cam...and well, they dont do well 'being a smaller cid' with power under the bigger cams curve.

I ran the old MP .460/268* cam....but i think they need more lift...like .490-.520 lift and the same 268*-272* duration 'faster lobes'....hate to say it but maybe talk to hughes or engle about it.
 
slantsixdan said:
'76 disc brakes are nice.

If you have your heart set on an earlier motor, try a www.car-part.com search. Remember to search something pre-'68 as well as something post-'68 to get all the applicable hits.

First year for Super Six was '77 in North America. Only difference is intake manifold, carburetor, choke thermostat, air cleaner, and throttle/kickdown details, which means you can "Super Six" any slant-6.

Forged crank up to midyear '76, cast crank after that. Unless you are going X-Treem racing, there's nothing the matter with a cast-crank engine. If your '65 is an automatic, you'll need to remember to install the bushing that adapts the '68-up large crank counterbore to the '67-down small torque converter nose.

Wanna beef up the slant-6? You'll hear the name "Clifford" come up, but be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described, and a lot of it is not even slightly cost-effective. The good news is that you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.
Click to expand...


Great links here Dan thanks for that! I really like those Hurricane intakes and i'm currently working on the HEI swap any part number/store sources for the coil wire that will go from the new hei style coil to the stock slant 6 electronic distributor?
 
Enjoy these slant six engines, Outboard and marine has there own cam shaft for best clean run at RPM and like any combine (farm equipment) these big crank bearing engines will do what you need, just don't over do the port work, I have the ford valves in my head, and I am keeping the 170 low deck /6 for my fun
 
I am amused by the dismissive/disparaging remarks about very up-to-date, carefully developed, thoroughly tested, and really effective cam grinds they have obviously never tried. :roll:
 
slantsixdan said:
I am amused by the dismissive/disparaging remarks about very up-to-date, carefully developed, thoroughly tested, and really effective cam grinds they have obviously never tried. :roll:
Click to expand...

Yep, I have to agree :glasses7:
 
I had swapped a 360/727 in my 64 barracuda. I too would stick with the slant six.
 
bohica2xo said:
I have a '65 with a 318 / 727 installed. Stay with the six.

B.
Click to expand...

dennday67 said:
I had swapped a 360/727 in my 64 barracuda. I too would stick with the slant six.
Click to expand...

Wondering what each of your specific reasons are? (I will be faced with the decision whether to tear the heart out of my 6, so wondering what some specific regrets are from those who have done it.)
 
Headers are expensive. If you use a 727 you have to trim the lip on the fire wall. Do you have a v-8 center link? If not you will need to track one down. Just to name a few.
 
dennday67 said:
Headers are expensive. If you use a 727 you have to trim the lip on the fire wall. Do you have a v-8 center link? If not you will need to track one down. Just to name a few.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. None of those are an issue for me in 72 Dart using 340 manifolds, and I have v8 center link. Thanks for the reply.
 
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