/6 Timing has me stumped!

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Cuda Tom

Cuda Tom

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Looking for some guidance or suggestions.
Newly rebuilt '68 block slant six. Timing gear lines up correctly. Set motor to TDC and point rotor to #1. Motor won't run. Fiddled and worked distributor around until it fired. Engine is running 120° out. If I hook timing light up to the #5 plug, timing is pretty much right there. Not running real smooth and is showing signs of vacuum leak. If I hold hand over carb, rpms climb maybe 200-300 before i can choke it out. Haven't had it on the ground yet to see what it does on under load, like maybe fall on its face? any positive help is appreciated.

gear.jpg
 
You're timed 180* out on the distributor. The correct orientation for the timing gears is like this:

Line them up dot to dot. Cam gear dot and crank gear dot pointing at each other. Then rotate the crankshaft ONE full revolution clockwise. This will position the cam gear dot to the top....ok, "about 30*" to the right and the crank gear will be back where it was. THIS is TDC for #1.
 
Cuda Tom said:
Looking for some guidance or suggestions.
Newly rebuilt '68 block slant six. Timing gear lines up correctly. Set motor to TDC and point rotor to #1. Motor won't run. Fiddled and worked distributor around until it fired. Engine is running 120° out. If I hook timing light up to the #5 plug, timing is pretty much right there. Not running real smooth and is showing signs of vacuum leak. If I hold hand over carb, rpms climb maybe 200-300 before i can choke it out. Haven't had it on the ground yet to see what it does on under load, like maybe fall on its face? any positive help is appreciated.

View attachment 1715357411
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But "THAT" seems to be off a full tooth. You need to address that "FIRST".
 
RustyRatRod said:
But "THAT" seems to be off a full tooth. You need to address that "FIRST".
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It looks like a slight turn of the crank clockwise would line them up, but if that is where the piston is at TDC there's a problem.
 
TrailBeast said:
It looks like a slight turn of the crank clockwise would line them up, but if that is where the piston is at TDC there's a problem.
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Yeah lookin back at it, it does look like it would line up. But the distributor timing is 180* out. Fix that shizzle and get her runnin! lol
 
Unfortunately and really confusing the whole issue is the stamping of the dots on the aftermarket gear set. Neither dot is exactly in the center of either tip or valley. The engine machine guy had me set it there but I'm wondering. What would you consider the correct locations (see attached pic)? And Thanks!
gear.jpg
 
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Apparently, there are guys who have this same situation...".The picture with the chain dot to dot looks correct. When it is in that position, the rotor points to #6. #1 and #6 are at TDC but, #1 is exhaust and #6 is compression. Drop distributor in pointing to #6, yes #6 when dot to dot." I looked at a /6 camshaft and the intake lobe of #1 (with cam dowel straight up as in pic 1) is at full lift at 11:00, its exhaust lobe is at 2:00; while the intake of #6 is polar opposite, pointing at 5:00. Generally on an older Mopar, the keyway on a crank is the position of the first throw.
 
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So looking at this further, the dots are not necessarily associated with being located at either a point or a valley. If I'm just lining up dots, it looks like I should be good.?.
 
Remember you can be ATC on compression stroke and on Exhaust stroke, that is your problem . Make sure you are on compression stroke.
 
Cuda Tom said:
So looking at this further, the dots are not necessarily associated with being located at either a point or a valley. If I'm just lining up dots, it looks like I should be good.?.
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Right. You're over thinking it thinking the dots have any correspondence with a gear tooth or valley. They do not.
 
Cuda Tom said:
So looking at this further, the dots are not necessarily associated with being located at either a point or a valley. If I'm just lining up dots, it looks like I should be good.?.
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Instead of "looking at this further", just time it like we are advising you to do. It's 180* out. This ain't hard to fix.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Instead of "looking at this further", just time it like we are advising you to do. It's 180* out. This ain't hard to fix.
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I have set distributor as advised! Won't run if turned 180° from current location. Only position it is happy in right now is 120 out. But thanks.
 
Cuda Tom said:
I have set distributor as advised! Won't run if turned 180° from current location. Only position it is happy in right now is 120 out. But thanks.
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Then you need to find true TDC and check all of your marks. Timing gears and balancer. If they are all correct, remove the cap and see where the rotor is pointing. If it's not pointing to number 1 with the engine on true TDC, pull the distributor and point the rotor to number 1.
 
we need pics: do you have a piston stop (long one for a slant) can use a drumstick: get piston down and jamb drumstick in #1 spark plug socket to wedge it against wall (it wont scratch) now gently bring piston up with wrench or belt until you just feel it hit. Mark your balancer edge with a dab of cream cheese from your bagel (or whatever you got that will wipe off) where it says 0 or TDC. Now turn motor other direction and feel it come up again and touch undisturbed drumstick, mark it again at TDC. Measure the distance between these 2 dots and make a permanent mark right in the middle. THIS IS YOUR TRUE TDC no matter what your balancer says. At this point your piston will be at its highest point on either its compresson stroke or its exhaust stroke. Only the camshaft will tell you what stroke your crank is on as its a 4 stroke motor. That's when your thumb over the spark plug hole will confirm the compression stroke as it will blow off your thumb, Pssst!. as soon as you feel compression building, run the new damper mark to its TDC (turning it clockwise) and youll be at TDC of compression stroke and your rotor should be pointing to #1 plug wire (forget terminals) If it is not, make it so by turning the distributor, or in the case that it cannot be turned enough, rewire the cap so the #1 is in range of the rotor. Even though 0 advance is not ideal, it will start the car assuming your cam timing is correct (dot to dot)
 
All this extra monkey motion is beginning to exceed the effort required to do a timing chain/sprockets install correctly (i.e., degree-in the camshaft instead of lining up dots and hoping they're stamped sorta kinda almost more or less around where they should be).
 
extra monkey motion

However, the OP would need:
* piston stop
* degree wheel
* cam degree bushings or off set crank key/crank gear
 
we just want to see the timing gears lined up and the rotors position.
 
slantsixdan said:
All this extra monkey motion is beginning to exceed the effort required to do a timing chain/sprockets install correctly (i.e., degree-in the camshaft instead of lining up dots and hoping they're stamped sorta kinda almost more or less around where they should be).
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So whats you're opinion on what the possible issue is and what the remedy could be. I realize its a slant six and not a rocket to the moon. Just looking for some help on how to remedy a problem with an engine already put together.?.? Monkey motion isn't really any help at all. I'm not a certified mechanic, just a hobbyist like most guys just trying to get by.
 
my68barracuda said:
extra monkey motion

However, the OP would need:
* piston stop
* degree wheel
* cam degree bushings or off set crank key/crank gear
Click to expand...

I "guess" I take all that for granted. I "just figure" if he ain't got "all that" then what's the point of havin an old car?
 
Cuda Tom said:
So whats you're opinion on what the possible issue is and what the remedy could be. I realize its a slant six and not a rocket to the moon. Just looking for some help on how to remedy a problem with an engine already put together.?.? Monkey motion isn't really any help at all. I'm not a certified mechanic, just a hobbyist like most guys just trying to get by.
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You've gotten it already. How many people do you need to hear it from?
 
RustyRatRod said:
You've gotten it already. How many people do you need to hear it from?
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I get it. I got it! Front comes off the motor tomorrow. Line up the dots, spin the cam, check the valves, check the distributor position. Thanks to everyone who responded. I got it. Have a great 4th . OUT!
 
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