'67 Dart - No stop lights, turn signals on but don't flash

Electrical and Ignition

  1. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart The parts you don't add don't cause you no trouble FABO Gold Member

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    Agreeded, doesn't explain the non flashing turn signal though. I would like to see what happens on the parking light first stop. If first stop pops fuse then the fault is more narrowed down.

    I think something happened, like the rear tail/brake light wires on the driver's side of the trunk might have gotten pinched?
     
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    • MungoMopar

      MungoMopar Active Member

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      Thanks for homing in on the location of the short. I'm off to a car show today in my son's '72 Satellite so I won't get any checking done until later or tomorrow evening - reserve car luckily.
      It's interesting to hear that you don't get something for nothing with regard to the one-wire alternator; it does seen like if it can be done then why aren't they all like it...
      I will sort out the short and flashers before touching the alt but -
      Do you have a part number for the 'correct' alternator? It's a 360ci in a 6-cyl car. It would be a 55A alt?
       
    • Dana67Dart

      Dana67Dart The parts you don't add don't cause you no trouble FABO Gold Member

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      67 would have a "round back" alternator. Problem is the cores are few and far between, so what you will get from the parts store is a "square back", modified to work in a 67.

      Both alternators will work just fine.

      There are many posts about round back single field wire alternators vs. square back 2 field wire (also refered to as isolated field) alternators and their respective voltage regulators.
       
    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      On your side of the pond, hard to know what is readily available.
      The advertised amp rating is generally of little help.
      Do the diagnosis first. See what you have in terms of wiring. Come back this later.
       
    • MungoMopar

      MungoMopar Active Member

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      ok, I've done a bit more work.
      I checked the tail light bulbs as the sockets do deteriorate, the plastic isolator and the sprung contacts. Each one looked reasonable; I was concerned that the contact on the bulb could bridge across the two sprung contacts, if the plastic isolator could twist.
      Having done this inspection, I got back to finding the flasher module; it was there, just further along to the right, hanging around near the glove box.
      I took the flasher module and bench tested it using two bulbs in parallel as the load; constantly on with no flashing; assume flasher failed.
      Now realising that the other flasher near the parking brake is indeed the 4-way, as advised here, I put this one back in the socket and flicked the 4-way flasher switch on-off-on. I had just tested this flasher with the two bulb load but no flashing, I assume that even if ok then the load may not be enough to flash (intended to flash 4 bulb load). Even so, something must have jogged the flasher as the 4-way flash was now working, first time seen on this car.
      I made some videos -

      4-way flashers working:


      Testing parking light / headlight, looking for short (not seen again)


      Right hand front lamp not working for 4-way flasher


      Apologies for quite dull videos, but they reflect some progress, I believe, towards getting the turn flashers working.

      Do you have a source of new tail light sockets?
      I haven't found a part number for say Dorman for these quite basic bulb sockets, anyone bought them recently, please any number to cross-reference?
       
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      • RedFish

        RedFish Well-Known Member

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        Just search google 1157 bulb socket. The main difference is the hole diameter in the fixture. I think you are looking for 1.125 but check to be sure. Too many of the aftermarket listings dont include that diameter spec. They expect you to cross reference the OEM part number. This listing does include diameter spec... PICO Wiring 5406PT Pico Light Bulb Sockets | Summit Racing
        Original socket got chassis ground path through the fixture. Some replacements have tang for a ground wire on the socket.
         
      • Mattax

        Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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        I recently posted the specs for a 1034 or 1157 bulb. It's an indexed bayonet base. However the bayonet can be forced out of the correct postion with less effort than we'd like... (see '69 valiant electrical gremlin thread link below)
        upload_2021-4-7_11-40-26-png.png
        upload_2021-4-7_11-37-59-png.png upload_2021-4-7_11-42-51-png.png

        Based on you tests so far, I think the place to begin is the right front bulb. Either the bulb isn't working, its not in the socket correctly, or the socket's not grounded to earth.

        When a socket isn't directly grounded, the electicity can often find another path to ground through the other filament. This doesn't work when there ia 12 Volt connection to the other filament.

        There's been some threads in the past year about repairing tail lights and front parking lights. I know I posted one, and IIRC Murray , Dana, and Redfish either commented or posted their own examples.

        edit: Mine was actually reverse lamps.
        This one. 67, 69 Barracuda and similar early reverse lights

        69 valiant electrical gremlin turn signal and license plate light


        Also since the short seemed to be resolved after moving tail lamp wires around, and also some poking around under the dash, visually check all the wires for chafing of insulations. Rewrap as needed and then make sure the harness are retained in their postions with the factory clips.
         
        Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        RedFish, many thanks for the info and link here for the sockets, much appreciated. I've just checked and yes 1.125" so I get these ordered.
        The front park/turn sockets look to be integral with the reflector housing? Is there a known good repro source of these? Mine aren't so shiny.
         
      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        Mattax Thank you for the bulb information and the links.
        I've taken the Front RH bulb out and cleaned up the ground strap back to the front panel, reassembled but no change.
        The status now:
        The earlier short has not shown up again (dome light still working).
        All bulb filaments can be illuminated in one way or another, LH, RH, turn, park, stop, tail.
        LH & RH turn signals not flashing, on constant, new flasher unit is on order; with flasher removed turn lamps can be flashed using a wire to short where the flasher unit should be.
        4-way emergency flashers work in 3 places only, not working front RH, not working green arrow in instrument panel (RH hand turn signal illuminates all of those bulbs, front, rear & instrument; just doen't flash yet).

        Waiting for new flasher unit.....
         
      • Mike69cuda

        Mike69cuda 66 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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        The emergency flasher switch is the likely culprit if all your bulbs don’t light up. It connects power (through a flasher) to the brake lights and the front turn signals. It is a four wire switch and it shorts all four together when you turn it on.
         
      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        Aha, thank you. I hadn't got any reaction out of the emergency flashers until this recent troubleshooting so the switch could well be worn out/oxidized, it jumped into life after excercising it a bit; I'll get one ordered.
         
      • RedFish

        RedFish Well-Known Member

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        I dont think there is more than electric rebuild kit for the sockets that are crimped into the housing. It might be possible to remove and replace that socket with some other type but it would need to be water tight
         
      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        That makes sense, thanks, replace the moving parts. Eastwood sell some 'almost chrome' paint to restore the reflector.
         
      • RedFish

        RedFish Well-Known Member

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        If your socket is crimped into a cast metal fixture, and in a metal grille, that is the chassis ground path. If the socket is loose at that crimp, That can cause problems like a dash indicator coming on with park lamps.
         
      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        Yes, the socket looks crimped into the reflector housing, I think ok not loose but I will take out and check better. There is a ground connection spade off the side of the socket to housing joint, I will clean that up. Now that the plated finish (zinc? chrome?) has long gone, what would you use to hold back further corrosion? Dielectric grease is an insulator so great at not shorting stuff out, but is it ok between the bulb bayonet pins and the socket (where we need contact)? This is what most folk use?
         
      • RedFish

        RedFish Well-Known Member

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        A small amount of dielectric grease shouldn't totally interrupt contact. Bulbs with nickel plated base may be better too. @slantsixdan is our bulb expert.
         
      • slantsixdan

        slantsixdan =..=

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      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        Hey thank you for the links, that's a great read, a lot of very relevant info, much appreciated.

        Today's update:
        The new turn signal flasher unit arrived in the post so just been out to try it. I tested this new flasher with 2x21W bulbs in parallel across the battery and it flashes ok as expected.
        I fitted the flasher into the turn signal circuit and ....... no flashing, just constant LH or RH turn lights.
        I got the multi-meter out with the intention of ensuring that the polarity of the flasher is correct for the circuit (should be standard pins but checking) but found unexpected voltages.
        The battery is showing 12.14V. Probing the turn flasher harness socket with ignition on and left or right turn signal on: from ground to the black wire shows 11.93V, from ground to the red wire shows 0.01V. Pressing the brake pedal made no difference to these voltages.
        Mike69cuda you suggested that the flasher switch is likely to be faulty, and yes, I've fiddled with the switch and if I flick it up for on and then nudge it down slightly the front RH bulb will come on making all 4 working. Thank you for the hint there, new switch in next parts order.
        I have tried many combinations including turns, 4-way, stops, ignition and discovered that with ignition off and 4-way flashers working nicely, if I press the brake pedal then the flashing stops, the 4 corners stay on.
        I'm thinking that there must be a a short somewhere (or ground fault?, don't understand those, strange things happen).
        * Could the turn circuit be picking up power from a short so that the flasher is bypassed?
        * Does the stop lights making the 4-ways go constant support this?
        The most accessible place where the stop and turn circuits meet is in the tail light sockets? I'm not too happy with the tail sockets so I'll try remove one bulb at a time.
        RedFish thank you for the Summit link; if I need anything else from Summit I would buy those but I have stuff that I'm getting from Rockauto so I have done some searching there for tail light sockets. Nothing is listed for the Dart tails there so I looked for models with the 1-1/8" reflector hole. It looked as if there were some Ford (& Chev) tails of that era that may suit and this lead to this article:
        Microsoft Word - Silly Sockets.doc (corvair.org)
        This lists the Chrysler part number 2926370 and this leads to STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS S75 and DORMAN 85860 on Rockauto. Both quote 'Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 2926370' and have the ground tab. I'm going to order both of these, hoping that they fit ok and see which look best quality, bayonet, springs, contacts etc..
         
        Last edited: May 1, 2021
      • MungoMopar

        MungoMopar Active Member

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        Update:
        The new flasher unit has the same 2 spade connections at 90deg to each other, marked 'X' & 'L', in the same orientation as the failed unit removed from the car, but it turns out that the polarity is incorrect; I made a bodge wire so that the flasher unit terminals can be reversed and the turn signals work fine. I will get the correct flasher unit.
        My turn signal problem is fixed; thank you for all of the help given here, much appreciated.
         
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