70 up charging system upgrade question

Discussion in 'Electrical and Ignition' started by 4spdragtop, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. 4spdragtop

    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Hi all, so I decided to upgrade from 69 single field alt to 70 and up style.
    I want to make sure I spliced into correct wire for the added 2nd wire to alternator.
    I removed blue and green wires from older style VR, and connected them to the newer VR connector. I then added/spliced a new blue wire to run to alternator(one I'm holding in pic)
    I believe this is correct?
    67 cuda elec ignition, MAD bypass/upgrade has been done.
    I have all new 70 and up goodies(VR, alt) new ECU and new coil.
    Thanks all.

    20180920_082727.jpg
     
  2. 4spdragtop

    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Things are loosely mounted now. I believe I have correct terminal for new blue wire?
    I wanted to check in here to make sure its correct before I hook up battery.
    Thanks
    Steve

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  3. A833

    A833 Active Member

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    Here is the best diagram I have. I tied into the blue wire as it shows. elec.jpg
     
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    • 4spdragtop

      4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Thanks, looks like u tied into correct side of ballast BUT, your diagram shows it as splicing into blue with tracer? I spliced into solid blue wire that comes from ballast and key switch(I believe)?
      Also my new ballast shows 1.7 ohms resistance. From what I've seen/read, it should be 1.2? Any foreseen issues?
      Thanks
      20180920_132955.jpg

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    • A833

      A833 Active Member

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      The diagram show it as Ma Mopar did it. You are correct I just tied into the blue on the ignition 1 side of the ballast resistor. FYI the new alternators can crank out in excess of 60AMP. The wiring carrying the current through the ammeter is not rated to carry that many amps and you run the risks associated. The bulkhead being the weakest point in the system. Quick fix is run a 10ga. wire from alt. Battery terminal to the Battery terminal on the starter relay. Takes the load off the original wires, but the ammeter will not read properly as all current is not flowing through it anymore. I did this on my 64 and I am next going to run new 10ga. wire to my ammeter through the firewall with rubber grommets and eliminate the original wires. Ammeter may still be at risk but I am confident it will be OK. A new ammeter rated for higher amps would be the safest bet.
       
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      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Thanks for clarifying on the blue splice wire. Its voodoo to me so I envisioned smoke... lol
        The MAD bypass I did a couple years ago. So I now have a voltmeter.
        I can "follow" diagrams but diagnosis is nada(but I try). Elec ign was added prior to us buying the cuda. All the mods done make it difficult to follow which goes where( voodoo) and Google can bring up wrong diagrams/instructions.
        Is 1.7 ohms resistance an issue at ballast(unhooked)?
        Thanks for the help, going to turn key "on" and do some tests before fire up.
        Thanks
        Steve
         
      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Also new blue wire to alternator connects to this terminal?
        Thanks

        20180920_114415.jpg
         
      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Ok with key on i checked for voltage drop at ballast and battery +ve. I'm getting 1.8 volts. Too high correct?
        Pic shows test lead in run side of ballast.

        20180920_152329.jpg
         
      • 4spdragtop

        4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Redid a connection I did previously when I did MAD bypass.
        Recrimped and soldered.
        Did a voltage drop test from ballast to batt +ve and still have a healthy drop. 0.7V.
        Dbl check more connections tomorrow.
         
      • A833

        A833 Active Member

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        I didn't know what you were referring to as far as the "MAD bypass". As far as the resistance on the ballast resistor I don't know what the acceptable range is. There has to be a plus and minus tolerance range as with anything else. Now you got me curious. If I come up with something I will pass it on. I have been informed that with the electronic ignition systems a ballast resistor is not really necessary. It was to help extend points and coil life span. It will decrease the coil life with out a resistor but it is supposed to provide more voltage at the spark plugs and there fore more power. I will be working on my ride tomorrow and will take some readings now that you got me thinking about it. I just completed converting the headlights to a relay switched configuration. Major voltage drop in the original wiring for them. I also converted my instruments voltage regulator to electronic and eliminated intermittent fuel gauge issues. Let me know if you are interested in that stuff if you havn't already done it and I will give you my info on it. What year Cuda do you have? Looks really clean from you're pics.
        Cheers,
         
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        • 4spdragtop

          4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Thanks A833, I have done the HL relay upgrade as well. Noticeable difference! Link below for MAD amp bypass. Works great. Dunno if that's the issue I'm having right now or not. All gauges including FUEL works good, so im leaving IVR for now.
          Never heard that ballast can be eliminated with stock elec ignition?? Maybe MSD etc?
          Right now im trying to figure out where my voltage drop is. Everything has good ground VR, ALT, ECU.
          I'm getting approx 0.8 V from ALT blue field to BATT +ve with all hooked up, key on car not running.
          Approx same volts from side of ballast to batt.+ve.
          These readings apparently indicate voltage drop/loss. What I've read is 0.2V MAX.
          0 resistance in black wire from ALT to starter relay(unhooked).
          About to double check bulkhead connectors for the umpteenth time lol.
          Car is a 67 we went and picked up in Colorado in 2012.
          Thanks for chiming in and kind words.
          Link below.
          Catalog
          20171008_130107.jpg
           
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          • A833

            A833 Active Member

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            Sweet lookin' Fish, Wish my little old lady was that clean. The first and second gen A body Cudas' were the best.
             
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            • 4spdragtop

              4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Ok found a poor connection in middle bulkhead connector. It was for ballast resistor. Cleaned it up and snuggled up good. Now voltage drop is worse lol. It's now almost 1 volt. Damned rabbit hole.....
               
            • 4spdragtop

              4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Any ideas where to check for more voltage drops?
               
            • 4spdragtop

              4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Seeing how I have elec ign and 70 up charging system, would a 73 valiant underhood schematic (for most part) be one to reference?
              Any ideas/advice appreciated
               
            • Mattax

              Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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              Steve. I don't know where 273Dart has been. Seemed like he was helping you.
              I've not followed your threads and posts in any detail. I know you've made several changes. My suggestion for a diagram is to start with the '67 ignition charging diagram. Take the one I've posted on my website and here.
              Then print it or open it in MSPaint, IRFAN or whatever drawing software you like.
              Mark it up precisely with each of the wires and items you've added.
              By precisely I mean to have the wire connections at their actual locations. If its a splice, show it as a splice (solid circle), if it joins at a terminal, show it there.
              The first iteration will be a bit messy. That's fine. Move things around (redraw if on paper) so its clearer to you. You probably don't need starter (yellow) for this particular problem, so you can delete things that for more room.

              Once you have it the way you like, make copies so you can mark the voltage readings right on it. Then you should be able to see where the voltage drop is relative to current flow.
              upload_2018-9-23_21-38-53.png
               
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              • 4spdragtop

                4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Thanks Matt, I understand how hard it can be diagnose/translate/advise on electrical threads. I'm the same way with math, I just "get it" and can do most in my head. Try to "help/teach" and its difficult for me to do.
                I appreciate ALL the advice/help as well as contributing members not "muddying" things/threads up.
                I could NOT imagine me trying to help in an electrical thread. Lol my default reply is "check grounds" never steer anyone wrong there lol.
                Hope everything is good with Del.
                Good idea with the "blended" schematics.
                I have printed the 67 cuda in color, 73 valiant(for elec ign and 70+ charge system). Also MAD bypass as well.
                Laminator at work, so once I get a good set drawn up, I'll laminate.
                Lol it's been a month now since this elec issue popped up, dont wanna drive it and burn anything...other.than rubber lol.
                Thank Christ I got a boat to go meditate in.
                Thanks again Mattax. :thumbsup:
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              • A833

                A833 Active Member

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                I like Mattax's ideas. I am going to draw up a schematic of my Valiant "as built". I am willing to bet you have a broken wire inside the insulation with only a few strands carrying current. I came across this once and I think it was a bad splice made in the manufacture of the wire to extend the run. Any way you probably have these but I post them just in-case you can use them.
                PS nice bass at least some one is getting some R&R.

                67BarracudawiringA.jpg

                67BarracudawiringB.jpg
                 
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                • 4spdragtop

                  4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Just about ready to put it up for sale....a fuckin month......
                  If I spent less goddamned time on here and more elsewhere....
                  Sorry for the rant...
                   
                • A833

                  A833 Active Member

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                  That's OK. When I get like that I walk away for a day or two come back and It usually comes to light.
                   
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                  • 4spdragtop

                    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Lol tried that more times than I care to admit. I appreciate the members that chimed in. Thanks
                     
                  • 4spdragtop

                    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    After cleaning up some bulkhead wires, (grey coil wire), ran new brown nss wire from starter relay. Old one was brittle and no continuity. Replaced starter relay(had new one on hand).
                    Batt static 12.14V
                    Key on "run", voltage test from run side of ballast harness to batt +ve with BR unhooked 11.18 volts.
                    Key in "start", measured same way but "start" side of BR, again unhooked, 10.20 volts.
                    Key off and I'm still showing 11.69 volts on start side of ballast?? Should that read 0 with key off?
                    I'm getting my "as built" schematic drawn out too(2nd revision) Tedious and time consuming but helps me understand having it all drawn out.
                    Should there be volts with key off at ballast?
                    Thanks
                    Steve
                     
                  • 4spdragtop

                    4spdragtop FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Anyone?
                     
                  • hangn0ut

                    hangn0ut Well-Known Member

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                    Key off should be no volts at the ballast.
                     
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                    • hangn0ut

                      hangn0ut Well-Known Member

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                      Start side of ballast supplies full volts to coil when cranking engine. That wire can go direct to positive coil but hooks into wire to coil at ballast resistor. This is ignition side of ballast. Other side of ballast is supplied full volts from key. This is run position. Then it is knocked down to about 9 volts by ballast resistor. You have voltage coming from the start circuit. I believe it is supplied voltage at the starter relay when the key is turned to start. Cuts out at the run position and all other key positions. I suspect the start relay is bad. They open up easily to look for any obvious damage or maybe it's just dirty inside causing malfunction. I am no electrician but my rides all run and charge and one has a completely home brew harness as the original was to hacked up. I would open that relay up. Don't cost nothing and you might find the problem. But wasent the original problem a voltage drop? Does your battery spark when you hook up the leads? I would think your battery would drain and die from the ignition constantly on. And actually with voltage constant to the coil your engine would not shut off with the key. Like hot wiring a car. Hmmm. Intermittent short. Maybe the ignition switch.....
                       
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