72 fitment aluminum radiator into a 1974?

Heating / Cooling / AC

  1. Caco2120

    Caco2120 Well-Known Member

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    hey fellas,

    is there a reason that radiator fitment stops fitment in 1972?
    even looking at OE spectre premium and such, the 73+ cars have different PN's

    I have a 74 scamp with a factory 318. What am I missing to run one of the below? hose size? hose length? drilling some holes in the core support?

    thanks!!!

    looking at either this 22
    3 Row Aluminum Radiator For Dodge Dart 1970-72 Small Block 22" CORE | eBay

    or this 26
    All 3 Row Aluminum Radiator For Dodge Plymouth Mopar Cars (26in Core) CC374 | eBay
     
  2. Caco2120

    Caco2120 Well-Known Member

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  3. Tooljunkie

    Tooljunkie King of cobble/master of the broken bolt FABO Gold Member

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    Those all look like good deals. I have no advice over fitting in different years.
    I should check and see what i can get into my 76.
     
  4. Streetsboro Rick

    Streetsboro Rick Well-Known Member

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    Check out Engineered Cooling Products they have a 26" a body radiator
     
  5. Johnny Mac

    Johnny Mac www.blueprintengines.com FABO Vendor

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    I have an eBay all aluminum radiator in my ram. Couldn't beat the price. These look about the same quality and price. Nice find. No doubt you can make it fit with some hoses, sleeves, and at worst, redrilling the mounting holes.
     
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    • Hellrats

      Hellrats Still wrenching after all these years FABO Gold Member

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      In 73 when the front end changed the radiator got a little bit taller. I put a 73 and up radiator in my 72 car and the cap would just touch the inside of the hood. I'm sure you could make it fit but you'll have to grind out the mounting holes.
       
    • supertruck

      supertruck Retired Old Fart stock car racer FABO Gold Member

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      I recently purchased a Champion CC2374 for my 73 Dart Sport. Fits great. Have to look at the hood bracing though, some cars may have to have the bracing cut out a bit to accommodate the radiator cap.
       
    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      • oldkimmer

        oldkimmer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Both my duster 360s have a 26 in rad from the factory. Kim
         
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        • Ccas

          Ccas FABO Vendor FABO Vendor

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          The price is pretty incredible. A direct China import is the only way to get that kind of pricing. You can tell by the price and the location. All direct china imports setup warehouses in California.

          Just a couple of observations that are related to this topic. And please don't take this that I'm bashing all owners who have 3 row fabricated tank radiators. They can and do perform fine in many situations.

          1. Since it is direct import, do not expect any kind of warranty or honoring of the warranty. View this video for a humorous but real perspective. :)

          I think the guy is being to harsh on saying 'ebay' radiators but he has a lot of good points.
          2. Quality is going to be suspect. You might get a good one, you might not.
          3. a 3 row aluminum radiator is worse than a big two row radiator. If you have a stock sb v8, that 3 row aluminum will probably do the job fine. however, for others reading, the 3 row aluminum is a very inefficient design and in a lot of cases is not adequate to cool built up motors and BB applications.
          4. Doubt if your OEM shroud is going to fit.
          5. This is just my opinion but one shared by many Mopar owners. A fabricated tank radiator looks like it was made in someone's basement. I think it's pretty homely looking.
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Really with this again?

          A 3 row radiator is not a "very inefficient design". This is a myth perpetuated by people that do not understand thermodynamics. Can a well designed 2 row radiator cool better than a poorly designed 3 row radiator? Sure. But you know what? A well designed 3 row radiator can cool better than a poorly designed 2 row radiator. And having big tubes does not necessarily mean you have a well designed radiator. That's just as much of a sales gimmick as saying 3 or 4 row radiators are better.

          Radiator design and efficiency is complex. There are a lot of variables, and the number of rows is only one and it's not the most important one either. Lets list some of the variables at work- the surface area of the core; the size, shape, surface area, and spacing of the tubes; the material of the radiator, the volume of coolant in the system, the pressure of the coolant in the system, the volume and speed of air flow through the core, and of course the ambient temperature of the air and the temperature of the coolant. That's just the big stuff, but all of those things determine the cooling ability and efficiency of a radiator.

          What works best in one application may not work best in another, it really depends on the application.

          So, do me a favor. Either work through all of the thermodynamic equations that prove what you're saying is true and post them up here, or stop making those claims. I'll even do you a solid and just let you work through the math for 2 and 3 row radiators that will fit into an A-body, because I know for a fact you can't prove what you're saying is true for all applications (there's a reason why 3 and 4 row radiators exist). You're a vendor, so I would think that you'd be able to get ahold of all the specs you'd need to do a full thermodynamic analysis.
           
        • yellow rose

          yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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          My 73 Demon is a factory 26 inch radiator and it's not an AC car.
           
        • Ccas

          Ccas FABO Vendor FABO Vendor

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          There is one major aluminum radiator company that sells 'small tube' 3 and 4 row aluminum radiators. Every other respected aluminum radiator company has chosen to use 2 big rows instead of 3 or 4 small rows. There is a reason for that.

          You've given your opinion. I've given mine. I'm not going to jack the topic starters thread each time you disagree with our opinions.

          I can see you are going to make it a habit to disagree with most of our knowledge base that we are sharing. You are welcome to your opinion as I am mine. Let the viewers decide who they want to believe instead of continuing to jack the topic starter's threads by challenging my posts in other members topics.
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          How well a radiator cools is not an opinion. It's determined scientifically, which means there is evidence to support one radiator cooling better than another. I'm not disagreeing with you personally, I have not called out your knowledge. I'm calling out your false claims. The claims you're making about 2 vs 3 row radiators in general are false. Period. It is absolutely possible for a 3 row radiator to cool better than a 2 row, and be more efficient. Efficiency is also determined scientifically, there's an equation for that. The blanket statements you've made in several threads not are not accurate.

          Now, I understand you're a vendor, and you have a product to sell. If your radiator with 2 "big rows" cools better than the 3 row radiators that your competitors sell, let's see the evidence. I'm absolutely willing to accept that your two row radiator for an A-body application cools better than a Champion 3 row, I've never said it didn't or that it couldn't. All you have to do is provide the evidence.

          Now, that being said, you should understand that even if your 2 row radiator cools better than a Champion 3 row, that doesn't prove that all 2 row radiators cool better than all 3 row radiators.

          If all 3 row radiators are inferior, let me ask you then, why does my '72 Challenger have a factory installed, OE, 26" 3 core radiator? Check the factory specs. 318 with an automatic and AC, factory shroud.
          IMG_5223.jpg
          IMG_5221.jpg
           
        • Ccas

          Ccas FABO Vendor FABO Vendor

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          Our claim is that 2 big row aluminum cools better than 3 5/8" rows in aluminum. The claim is generally true. Not generally false. While there are other factors like (air flow and engine hp) that could make this claim false, the claim is generally true. We have done engine testing on radiators with 2 big row vs 3 small row, tri-flow, dual flow, same side inlet, crossflow etc changing only the radiator that 'generally' support our claims but the best proof I can offer is that of aluminum 3 row customers switching to 2 Big rows and experiencing lower temperatures. This is public information by real people found all over the internet.
          1. A 3 row 5/8" aluminum radiator doesn't hold as much fluid as a big 2 row.

          2. The flow of air through the radiator is restricted by the thickness of the radiator and the friction produced between each row.

          3. Because the surface area of the tubes are smaller, the transfer of heat is not as efficient as the transfer of heat of the larger tube surface area of the big 2 row.

          All of this is comparing aluminum to aluminum.
           
        • Ccas

          Ccas FABO Vendor FABO Vendor

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          I didn't say all radiators. I said 3 row aluminum vs 2 big row aluminum.

          And as far as your car, certain vehicles simply don't need additional cooling capacity. Your 3 row copper 26" radiator with a 318 stock motor would probably run fine on even a 'small' 2 row aluminum radiator. It certainly would run fine on an aluminum 3 or 4 row. I make claims (opinions) based on the situation and based on the experience we have. For example, you'll never see me tell a factory 318 owner with a 26" 3 core copper radiator that he's making a mistake by getting a 3 row aluminum radiator and that he absolutely needs a big 2 row. I might recommend a big 2 row radiator for the weight savings, nicer look, future motor upgrade or just plain piece of mind in a situation like that, but generally I you'll notice I rarely if ever make a specific recommendation for any of our radiators.
          My advice is normally very helpful, unbiased and accurate.

          It's very appropriate for readers to know, that in general, 3 row and 4 row aluminum radiators are LESS efficient than Big 2 row aluminum radiators. The viewers can apply the specific circumstances of their situation like cost, engine hp, fan air flow, spacing, driving habits, gear ratios, transmission cooler and more to make an educated decision on the best option.
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          If you did testing, let's see the actual results. Test parameters, radiators tested, actual temperature data. Not just a vague statement about your customers having lower temperatures after switching. If you've got the data, show it.

          1. How much volume does each radiator hold? You should have that info.

          2. Yes, in general, the air slows down and heats up as it passes through the radiator. The air warms as it passes each row, the thicker the radiator the more it slows the air. But how much that actually effects efficiency and performance depends on a lot of specific design element. And it doesn't necessarily mean adding an extra row is inefficient, just that it's less efficient than the first one. The 2nd row in a two row radiator is also less efficient than the first, yet we still use 2 row radiators. You're balancing the increasing temperature and slowing air flow with the additional surface area of the next row of tubes. If the surface area of the tubes wins out, the next row improves the performance of the radiator.

          3. Again, you should have the actual surface area information, so, lets see it. That's where the rubber hits the road. Does your 2 row "big tube" radiator have more surface area than the 3 row radiators you're talking about? Prove it.

          What my car would run on isn't the point. It has a factory three row radiator. It came with one because that's what the factory used to increase cooling capacity when they did things like add AC and automatic transmissions. You think the factory would have bothered if they could have used the same two row as came in models without AC? You know they wouldn't have.

          Your lack of specific recommendations is exactly the problem I have with your claims. Your general claims are false. If your radiator cools better than your competitors, say that. And back it up with numbers, not general claims.
           
        • Caco2120

          Caco2120 Well-Known Member

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          th?id=OIP.jpg
           
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          • Caco2120

            Caco2120 Well-Known Member

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            I did not know this, and upon measuring mine, its only an 18 inch core. regardless i'll be making one of the larger ones fit. Thanks for the contributions.
             
          • 72bluNblu

            72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Adding a larger radiator is pretty simple. With the 18” cores I believe the opening in the radiator support is still 22”, I think there were only two different radiator support structures that were used. I’m not sure if the mounting points are the same as for the 22” radiators, but they might be. So a 22” radiator would be a pretty simple install.

            With the 26” radiator the mounting locations are definitely different, so you have to drill the new holes in the radiator support for the bolts. When I installed my 26” radiator I actually welded the nuts to the radiator support similar to the factory mounts, just to make it easier to hang the radiator in there by myself. The opening in the radiator support is still 22” on my car too. You can trim the opening back, but it’s not mandatory. You’ll still get airflow over those outside tubes, just not quite as much. On my car the whole core is still covered by the fan shroud for my electric fans on the backside, so air still gets pulled across the whole surface with the fans running. At speed I’ve never had a problem with the temperature, so I never felt the need to open up the radiator support to the full 26”.
             
          • sireland67

            sireland67 Well-Known Member

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            I can tell you for a fact, in my case.
            An aluminum 2 row 22" champion will not cool as good as a factory brass 22".
            I punctured my brass radiator, and replaced it with a champion aluminum one, it constantly runs 20 degrees hotter with the aluminum radiator vs the brass factory one.
            No other changes.
             
          • moparmandan

            moparmandan FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Yup. N51 Max engine cooling.
            2017-03-30 20.34.21.jpg
             
          • moparmandan

            moparmandan FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            BTW The Oreilly's $189 26" oem replacment is working fine. It's black, looks kinda factory and cools great even in Florida.
             
          • 72bluNblu

            72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            None huh? Same thermostat, water pump, fan, fan shroud, coolant, etc?

            I would bet that the 2 row Champion uses the same tube dimensions as the Champion three row. Which means the 2 row Champion probably has smaller tubes than the original brass 22" 2 row did, which is why your car now runs hotter. It's just cheaper for them to produce all of their radiators with the same tube size. Which is probably the same reason that Cold Case, the company being repped by Ccas, doesn't sell 3 row radiators. They only use one tube size because it's cheaper to do that. Well, that and they'd have to change their entire sales gimmick if they came out with a 3 row radiator. In your case I would bet that one of those 2 row "big tube" radiators from Ccas would probably work better than your current 2 row Champion. Bigger tubes, more surface area.

            Look I'm not a Champion rep, I really don't care. My argument has not been for Champion. They're a cheaply produced radiator and absolutely have the quality control and fit issues that come along with that. The 3 row, 26" Champion radiator that I have has worked flawlessly, but not everyone has had that experience.

            My particular beef is the perpetual shlock about 2 row "big tube" radiators and how 3 row radiators are inherently worse. It's a marketing gimmick. Same as the competing manufacturers that say 3 or 4 row radiators are inherently better because they have more rows. Big tubes aren't inherently better. More rows isn't inherently better. In general more surface area is better, but even that depends on the details. The cooling capacity of a radiator depends on a whole bunch of things, and those are only two of many variables. You can have a 3 row that cools better than a 2 row, and a 2 row that cools better than a 3 row, it just depends on the design and construction of those individual radiators. Which is why I keep pressing for more information, so we can actually see which is better based on the DATA.

            But since we can't get past the marketing gimmick to real information, we won't know if the 2 row "big tube" radiators that Ccas is trying to sell us actually perform better than the competing 3 rows. All of these radiator companies make sales pitches, most of them count on the buyer not actually having an understanding of thermodynamics.
             
            Last edited: May 21, 2018
          • 6pk2goDemon

            6pk2goDemon Mopar Mod Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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            I'm under the impression the 26" radiator wasn't offered on A-Body cars until 73. If it was offered before then, please enlighten me...


            73 Dart Sport or do you have the 1 & only 73 Demon produced?? :)
             
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