73 Duster Electrical Issue

Electrical and Ignition

  1. 1972trucks

    1972trucks Well-Known Member

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    I have a 73 Duster that I got as a restoration project. It was a 6 cylinder car that the guy I got it from had already put a built 318 w/904 in it. He changed the K frame. I restored the body and am now to the point of trying to start it. I am about ready to try to start it so I put a new battery in it to see if the lights and the dash work but I have nothing . No power to anything. I have 12+ volts at the battery, 12+ at the hot wire wiring hookup on the fender well, 12+ at the bulkhead on the firewall, the starter is brand new and connected. II can't figure it out. Any thoughts or suggestions before I haul it off to an auto electric shop?

    View attachment 1715378541
     
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    • j par

      j par Well-hung Member

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      My thoughts are this could be the turning point. If you start taking it to shops now you might as well just keep your wallet open.
      You're saying when you hit the starter part it's not turning over?
       
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      • rumblefish360

        rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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        How about after the bulkhead to the ignition switch?
         
      • Loggato

        Loggato Well-Known Member

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        Check the two wires behind the ammeter on the gauge cluster. If they are not screwed into the gauge cluster nothing will work.
         
      • 1972trucks

        1972trucks Well-Known Member

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        Haven't checked the wires on the cabin side of the bulkhead yet. The red and black are hooked up. I just put this dash cluster in . It was one I had that was in good shape. I am assuming it works. I have nothing period. No electrical at all
         
      • Demonic

        Demonic Well-Known Member

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        One side on the ammeter is directly from the bulkhead connector. One of the two buss bars in the fuse box should be hot if the bulkhead connection is OK.
         
      • 1972trucks

        1972trucks Well-Known Member

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        Thanks I will check this out tomorrow and post what I find
         
      • 1972trucks

        1972trucks Well-Known Member

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        I have a 73 Duster that I bought as a started project. It was originally a 6 cylinder car that was changed over to a built 318. Have done body and interior but now I am trying to start it. It will not turn over at all. I have headlights, turn signals , horn, even door buzzer. I have checked and have power to the bulkhead connectors. I have power to to the ballast resistor. I have a brand new HEI distributor with a super coil that I am using. I have tried unplugging the ECU and jumpering the ballast resistor and fried one of the plugs for the ballast Have fixed it and started over but still have nothing. When hooked up and key turned to run I have power to the resistor but it is getting very hot. I have hooked a starter switch up directly to to the solenoid and battery ad the motor will turn over. I am lost as to what to do now. I can't figure this out. I am a backyard mechanic so i am limited in knowledge. Any help!!!

        73.4.jpeg
         
      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Your post does not make sense, entirely. You say "it won't turn over at all" which implies that the starter won't crank, is that correct?

        But then it seems you are messing with the ballast and ECU, etc, which has nothing to do with getting the engine to crank??

        Please clarify.............

        IF IT WILL NOT CRANK.............Is this a stick or automatic and if stick, do you have a clutch safety switch?

        If it cranks but no spark that is another matter.................Also, the "run" line GOES COLD if you twist the key to "start." That is NORMAL. The coil / ECU power during starting comes from a separate contact on the ignition switch, known as IGN2, during "start."

        What do you mean by "HEI distributor" EXACTLY?

        If you have such as that, you might not need nor want a ballast, and what about the ECU? You referring to Mopar ECU? Should not need that either, with an HEI setup
         
      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        The above are all QUESTIONS. I am not making fun of you
         
      • Murray

        Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Relay or neutral switch.
         
      • 1972trucks

        1972trucks Well-Known Member

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        Thank you for your reply. I am sorry about posting twice. I didn't know where to best post was ad didn't see the eletrical forum until after I posted the other . . .
        the car is an automatic. I have plugged in the neutral safety switch in to the transmission. On the distributor it is basically an aftermarket MSD distributor with their version of a super coil. I have talked to people and some say use both and some say no. I dd try it with the ECU unplugged and the ballast resistor jumped. When I hit the key the left side plug started to melt. I may have jumped the wires wrong. Can't figure this one out
         
      • 89on35s

        89on35s Inferno Red Duster FABO Gold Member

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        Find a factory service manual and make one of these?
        20180224_144656.jpg 20180224_144640.jpg
        They are taped together in order left to right. You can follow each wire from end to end on it. Dont be afraid to use a highlighter or colored pen to trace along the wires so they will be easier to follow. Should be able to fix about anything electrical wise if you got a good schematic.

        Cley
         
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        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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          Sent you a reply
           
        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          OK neutral safety circuit. Look at your starter relay mounted on the firewall. You have two "push on" flag terminals, they are the relay coil. One wire goes to the bulkhead connector, and supplies the "start" signal from the ignition switch to the relay. The other terminal leads down to the center pin of your neutral safety switch. That switch must be grounded to allow the relay to engage, and is supposed to in park or neutral.

          So make SURE the vehicle is out of gear, and remove the wire going down the firewall to the transmission. Jumper that flag terminal to ground. Try the key. If it does not crank, put a light/ meter on each wire (the push on/ flag) and look for power with the key in "start." If you have power and it won't crank, check out the start relay

          Also try jumpering the two largest exposed starter relay terminals. It should crank, and this shows the wiring from there to the starter, and the starter itself is OK
           
        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Ignition. Get it to crank first. I have no idea what you might have smoked. First thing we need to know is what exact MSD dist. do you have? What part no? The install destructions are on their site. Post that model and we can get to it
           
        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          So far as your posting, no problem. If you do this again, just send the mods a note and ask them to move it to the correct forum Double posts get confusing, because some will post there, makes things hard to follow
           
        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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          I have hooked my starter switch to the solenoid and battery pos side and it will turn over
           
        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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          It was the wire that goes on the left side of the ballast clip that goes in to both of the pins . . . . . . .
          Here is the info on the distributor . . . . . . . . . . .

          NEW HI-PERFORMANCE 1964-1978 SMALL BLOCK MOPAR (CHRYSLER, DODGE, PLYMOUTH) 273-318-340-360 SMALL MALE CAP "Ready-To-Run" HEI DISTRIBUTOR, RED 50,000 VOLT HI-OUTPUT COIL & RED 8mm HI-PERFORMANCE SPIRAL CORE SPARK PLUG WIRES THAT ARE MADE IN U.S.A.!!


          Brand New Small Block MOPAR 273-318-340-360 Small Cap HEI Distributor. This distributor is also know as a Ready-To-Run distributor. Distributor cap is RED.

          DISTRIBUTOR comes with a 3 YEAR WARRANTY!! This distributor requires an external 12 volt coil for electronic ignition and it is included in this listings. Distributor works on Small Block Mopar 273-318-340-360. If you want this distributor & spark plug wires set without a coil, please check out my other listings. I have the distributor in Red, Blue or Black and the coils in Red, Blue, Black or Chrome. (See the 2nd photo for coil color options) If you do not see the color combination you want, just send me a message. I also have this same electronic distributor with a female (points style) cap.

          **Shipping to Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico is an additional $15**

          **PLEASE NOTE: YOU MUST RUN EXTERNAL COIL WITH THIS DISTRIBUTOR and it is included. Coil needs to be 12V and have an output of 40,000 volts or more. If you do not need a coil, please see my other listings that do not include the coil with the distributor. This Small Cap HEI Ready-To-Run distributor is made for easy installation. Just hook up the two wires and you are "Ready to Run"!! This distributor & coil comes with easy instructions and a 3 year warranty. Check out my feedback and buy with confidence.

          This Distributor Features:

          -Small Cap allows for easy fire wall clearance, especially for Pre-1975 that do may not have the room for a large size HEI.



          -OEM appearance (also available with male cap)

          -Unit is fully CNC machined.

          -Fully self-contained distributor with built in Module. Only requires 12 volt External coil for electronic igniton (Typical points coil will not work). No Ballast Resistor is required.

          -Easy two wire Hookup (wires included)

          -Same as late GM HEI’s except you run an external coil instead of In-cap coil.

          -Eliminates the need for all the extra wiring and ballast resistor.

          -Major improvement in starting and performance over points

          -Built-in GM style module (not made by GM)

          -Spark plug gap can run from around 45-50 instead of 35 if you run points.

          -Same size as the original points distributors and is fully electronic.

          - Much better fuel mileage

          - Far less pollution, as the fuel is burned much better

          - Faster start ups, especially in cold weather

          - Those with carborators prone to flooding will notice a huge difference, as the spark on electronic ignition is many times stronger than point style ignition.

          - Virtually no maintenance, compared to points

          - Spark plug life is 3-5 times longer, as well as plug wires

          - Much better performance, over points, mostly due to the better combustion of unleaded fuel, as this was the primary reason for the development of electronic ignition.

          - Point dwell changes as points wear out, causing your timing to advance dramatically. This brings your engine much closer to detonation, not to mention hard starting, and poor performance.

          - Over all engine life is much longer with electronic ignition over points.

          This listing also includes a New RED 1

          2 Volt coil that puts out 50,000 volts. This is a perfect coil to run with this electronic distributor. The coil also comes with a 3 year warranty.



          Includes Red PACKARD WIRE 8mm High Performance 270 ohm Spiral Core Spark Plug wires for 1964-1978 Small Block MOPAR 273-318-340-360 applications. Spark plug wires have straight spark plug boots and 90 degree distributor boots that are already factory assembled.

          The included set of RED wires will work on 1964-1978 SMALL BLOCK MOPAR 273-318-340-360 using the HEI (male) distributor cap that is also included in this listing. These wires are already factory assembled on both ends. A coil wire is included.

          For over 100 years, MADE IN THE USA!! These High Performance wires only have 270 ohms per foot!! The less Ohms, the more Performance.
           
        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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          Here s the instructions for the dist.
          upload_2019-9-11_22-52-7.jpeg
           
        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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          Hi, thanks for the reply. When it comes to electrical it is above my head. You said the starter relay is on the firewall but I think mine is on the fenderwell by the battery. As I have said I have power to the bulkhead. When I turn the key to on/run position I have power to the ballast resistor. I have hooked a starter switch up to the battery and the solenoid and it does turn over when I engage it. I am also confused about jumpering the neutral safety switch (where and how)
          Sorry for being so dumb about this
           
        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          OK the starter relay functional path (for the relay coil) is from the key, through the bulkhead, to one of the two flag "push on" terminals, through the coil, out another wire on the second flag terminal, and down to the center terminal on the neutral switch. THAT TERMINAL on the NSS should be ground when the trans is in park or neutral. To eliminate that, remove that wire, and ground the terminal on the relay from which you removed it. That will ground the start relay coil and eliminate the NSS.

          Next, twist the key to "start" and see if it cranks. If not, monitor the other relay coil (flag). You should have voltage there in "start"

          If you DO have voltage, and it won't crank, you likely have a bad starter relay
           
        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          So far as your ignition. Regardless of the factory wiring there is two wires in the original car involved. IGN1 "run" is often dark blue. IGN2, ballast bypass, is often brown. These come from the ignition switch, through the bulkhead, out into the engine bay. The whole deal is, IGN1 "run" GOES DEAD during cranking. So you would have no spark!!!

          But IGN2 originally was meant to bypass the coil resistor, and THAT is what gives you ignition power in cranking. So to run your add-on ignition, you must JUMPER IGN1 and 2 together and hook them up where the "key" is in the MSD diagram.

          You must ALSO leave the alternator field and VR power in the mix, which is branched off of the "run" wire originally. Make sure you don't chop things all up and disable it---won't charge
           
        • 1972trucks

          1972trucks Well-Known Member

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          Than
          Thanks again but as I said electrical stumps me. I am still hung up on two things, the starter relay and the flag push on terminals. I did try to put a jumper fro the blue to the brown wire of the ballast resistor and nothing except the wire got hot. Here is a couple of pics of my set up. Is the first two the starter relay? On the ballast I do have a dark blue and a brown which I jumpered together. On the starter relay i don't understand what you are saying about the NSS as far as jumping it. Sorry to be so stupid

          relay.1.jpg

          relay.2.jpg

          bal.1.jpg

          bal.2.jpg
           
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