80’s 318 compression ratio figuring out where I’m at.

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cawcislo

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Trying to see what my compression ratio is. I still need to cc the 360 heads that are on it they are the 596 heads. At TDC I used a few stacked feeler gauges and a straight edge and I’m coming up with pistons close to 0.100 in the hole. Using the online calc and guessing at 70cc combustion chamber and approx 3 cc for the 4 valve reliefs in the pistons I come up with 7.3:1. Is that typical of 80’s 318’s? I thought 7.5:1 at the very least. Anyone know how thick stock headgaskets were? Perhaps that is contributing?

when I did a compression test before I pulled the heads I had between 133 and 140 psi across the board. Just looking to make some minor improvements and bumping compression with thinner head gaskets and milling the heads might give this motor a little more pep.
C7B85EF7-13B1-4A06-A39F-6C7402DA53FA.png
 
stock stamped steel gaskets were ~.020
Are your pistons flat tops?
With valve reliefs?
What year is that engine?
Ima guessing those are already aftermarket pistons. And 3cc for 4 eyebrows is not gonna be enough.
And unmachined early 360 heads are closer to 72/74 ccs

IMO, if you put a cam into this combo, with a later closing intake angle, you are heading straight for disappointment.
If you want pep with a smogger-teen, start with a 2800TC, and gears of 3.23 or more. Cheapest pep you can get.

360 heads with the factory cam are as good as no WOT power improvement, but are accompanied by a less-peppy bottom end.

Your numbers add up to 11.3(gasket) + 19.8(deck) +3(eyebrows) +70(heads)= 104cc total chamber volume.
and at .020 overbore, your swept is 651.3, and so
(659+104)/104=7.33Scr

But, those 4 reliefs are probably closer to 6 per set, and a swap to .028(6.3cc) composition headgaskets, and uncut J heads at 73cc, comes to
6.3+19.8+6+73=105.1, so Scr comes to 7.27; close enough.
I gotta tell ya, there is no way I would screw this together like this.
If you have to keep those pistons, Then I would be looking for some/any closed chamber heads. Say you found a set of old 318 hi-swirls at 60cc, then
6.3+19.8+6+60=92.1 and Scr comes to 8.16, which IMO will still suck. Between 7.3 and 8.16 you will not feel any WOT power difference. My chart says less than 2% ..... At Part Throttle, maybe, but you will need to be very familiar with the old cylinder pressure.
What you need to do is to get rid of those 19.8cc below the decks! With the lightly milled 70cc heads this then makes 82.3cc and Scr=9.00
With the stock cam's Ica of ~48*, this will make ~160psi@500 ft elevation.
Now yer cooking
But at 140 psi before teardown, I wouldda spent the money on a TC first, and if you have 2.76 rear gears , those gotta go.
The 2800 would allow the engine to wind up to close to peak torque, which could be 100 or more footpounds higher than the stocker. This calculates to 100x2800/5250= Plus 53hp at the crank . You can't touch that with compression.
3.23 rear gears over 2.76s, is an improvement of 3.23/2.76=plus 17% in torque multiplication, making your teener feel 17% bigger. If your engine makes 280 ftlbs at 2800rpm, these new gears will make it feel 48 ftlbs bigger, about half of what the TC did. Together this adds up to 150 ftlbs or 150/280=~54% more torque, on the launchpad. You'll need a supercharger on the 7.5 engine to equal that, at factory stall.
Happy HotRodding
 
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Trying to see what my compression ratio is. I still need to cc the 360 heads that are on it they are the 596 heads. At TDC I used a few stacked feeler gauges and a straight edge and I’m coming up with pistons close to 0.100 in the hole. Using the online calc and guessing at 70cc combustion chamber and approx 3 cc for the 4 valve reliefs in the pistons I come up with 7.3:1. Is that typical of 80’s 318’s? I thought 7.5:1 at the very least. Anyone know how thick stock headgaskets were? Perhaps that is contributing?

when I did a compression test before I pulled the heads I had between 133 and 140 psi across the board. Just looking to make some minor improvements and bumping compression with thinner head gaskets and milling the heads might give this motor a little more pep.
View attachment 1715508101
Looks about right. I think IIRC the piston should be .081 in the hole not much difference in what you came out with. I can't remember exactly but I think my later 318 (86) was like .065
 
Upon closer inspection the pistons are 0.030 over after I cleaned up some more carbon off the top. I cc’d the head and looks like it’s been milled already? Came up with 63cc chamber. I’d like to swap pistons, but that requires a whole tear down and rebalancing, which I don’t want to do for this “play” engine. I’ve got 3.23’s in my 8.25 rear. I have a set of 3.73’s I’m gonna swap in this summer for some pep. It’s a 4 speed. My new revised calc with 6cc valve reliefs and 63 cc chambers and 30 overbore is still crappy 7.6:1. If I get a 0.030 gasket (O.20 thinner than what was there), and mill the heads another 0.40) I should get to 8.6:1. Good enough? Worth while?
 
How much taller are kB pistons compared to stockers? might Just do a piston swap if it gets my compression up enough? Roll the dice on no rebalance.
 
How much taller are kB pistons compared to stockers? might Just do a piston swap if it gets my compression up enough? Roll the dice on no rebalance.
Depends on what your comparing the too most replacement pistons are 1.741 I can look at the kbs I'm not 100 sure
 
This all sounds very familiar to my current 318. Was basically trying to do the exact same thing. I ended up with a .040 over 318, pistons .090 in the hole. I picked up a set of 302 casting heads (measured at 60cc). I used the thin steel shim head gasket. After some research I ordered up the comp XE262 cam. Last time I checked my cylinder pressure was in the mid-high 140's.. nothing to write home about. However, with a 2800 stall and 3:73 gears its alot of fun to rip around in. If I could back it up, I would have swapped pistons, but I was tight on cash and wanted to get back on the road.
 
This all sounds very familiar to my current 318. Was basically trying to do the exact same thing. I ended up with a .040 over 318, pistons .090 in the hole. I picked up a set of 302 casting heads (measured at 60cc). I used the thin steel shim head gasket. After some research I ordered up the comp XE262 cam. Last time I checked my cylinder pressure was in the mid-high 140's.. nothing to write home about. However, with a 2800 stall and 3:73 gears its alot of fun to rip around in. If I could back it up, I would have swapped pistons, but I was tight on cash and wanted to get back on the road.
Right on.

No knocking , but those 302 heads are Chrysler's cheap out move to save money and lower emissions. They are dogshit.
You can port them...but if you dont open up that garbage chamber shrouding as cast
..the porting yelilds about 70% of what it should have. Something else people don't realize is that about 2 out of 3 are cracked ,not into water always... but maybe just into the seat next to it...and the third one is cracked somewhere it wont matter... but still cracked!
All of them , though a lot crack and can be used...till the crack grows into a water jacket, they are mostly a testament to when a automobile maker tries to save money...it always falls to the consumer and is a failure.

The thin casting was the path to the magnum heads... which mostly all crack as well.
It was like they said okay we only have X amount of ounces of iron per head so if we're going to fill this chamber in to make it closed...you bet your left nut its gonna come out of the structural integrity of the head itself...lol
 
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I fully realized that when I picked them up. But the price was right and it was better than I had. If I would have had more in the budget they wouldn't have been there.
 
Putting in the KB167's will drop bobweight by around 90 grams.... balance with be quite far off of stock.... no dice roll necessary as the answer is known. The only simple way to get back towards balance is to find a good used set of 273 piston pins (205-210 grams each) and put those in with the KB's' they are about 75 grams heavier than the 132 gram KB pins and will put the balance back close to stock. Otherwise, you can use a nominal bobweight number on the heavy 318 rods with the KB's and use that to re-balance the crank only (cuts balance cost by more than half), and you will be pretty close on balance (as good or better than factory). I have the data if you want to go down that road; ask here or PM me.

BTW, if you have 4 small eyebrows on your stock-replacement pistons, then those are around 3 cc's, not 6.

This all sounds very familiar to my current 318. Was basically trying to do the exact same thing. I ended up with a .040 over 318, pistons .090 in the hole. I picked up a set of 302 casting heads (measured at 60cc). I used the thin steel shim head gasket. After some research I ordered up the comp XE262 cam. Last time I checked my cylinder pressure was in the mid-high 140's.. nothing to write home about. However, with a 2800 stall and 3:73 gears its alot of fun to rip around in. If I could back it up, I would have swapped pistons, but I was tight on cash and wanted to get back on the road.
You did quite well with that combination to get those cylinder pressures with those pistons. Good work.
 
Trying to see what my compression ratio is. I still need to cc the 360 heads that are on it they are the 596 heads. At TDC I used a few stacked feeler gauges and a straight edge and I’m coming up with pistons close to 0.100 in the hole. Using the online calc and guessing at 70cc combustion chamber and approx 3 cc for the 4 valve reliefs in the pistons I come up with 7.3:1. Is that typical of 80’s 318’s? I thought 7.5:1 at the very least. Anyone know how thick stock headgaskets were? Perhaps that is contributing?

when I did a compression test before I pulled the heads I had between 133 and 140 psi across the board. Just looking to make some minor improvements and bumping compression with thinner head gaskets and milling the heads might give this motor a little more pep.
View attachment 1715508101


Here's a thread on how to accurately check the parts combo that you have...

How to Check Compression
 
This all sounds very familiar to my current 318. Was basically trying to do the exact same thing. I ended up with a .040 over 318, pistons .090 in the hole. I picked up a set of 302 casting heads (measured at 60cc). I used the thin steel shim head gasket. After some research I ordered up the comp XE262 cam. Last time I checked my cylinder pressure was in the mid-high 140's.. nothing to write home about. However, with a 2800 stall and 3:73 gears its alot of fun to rip around in. If I could back it up, I would have swapped pistons, but I was tight on cash and wanted to get back on the road.
That must have been many moons ago. I haven't seen steel shim head gaskets for 15 or 20 years.
 
Putting in the KB167's will drop bobweight by around 90 grams.... balance with be quite far off of stock.... no dice roll necessary as the answer is known. The only simple way to get back towards balance is to find a good used set of 273 piston pins (205-210 grams each) and put those in with the KB's' they are about 75 grams heavier than the 132 gram KB pins and will put the balance back close to stock. Otherwise, you can use a nominal bobweight number on the heavy 318 rods with the KB's and use that to re-balance the crank only (cuts balance cost by more than half), and you will be pretty close on balance (as good or better than factory). I have the data if you want to go down that road; ask here or PM me.

BTW, if you have 4 small eyebrows on your stock-replacement pistons, then those are around 3 cc's, not 6.

You did quite well with that combination to get those cylinder pressures with those pistons. Good work.
Could you use 340 rods? They are heavier.
 
Will 273 piston pins work without mods to the kB pistons and stock 318 rods? Are those floating piston pins? Looking to do this cheap. I’m not building a daily driver. I know rebalancing is the right way to do things, but with 273 pins could I bolt it together and go? Wonder how much My 0.030 over pistons that are in there now weight compared to KB’s. I think they may be sealed power brand, I’ll check and see if I can tell if not I’ll post a pic and maybe others can help identify.
 
Will 273 piston pins work without mods to the kB pistons and stock 318 rods? Are those floating piston pins? Looking to do this cheap. I’m not building a daily driver. I know rebalancing is the right way to do things, but with 273 pins could I bolt it together and go? Wonder how much My 0.030 over pistons that are in there now weight compared to KB’s. I think they may be sealed power brand, I’ll check and see if I can tell if not I’ll post a pic and maybe others can help identify.
You can take the KB pins or 273 pins and press fit the new pistons into the existing rods. The 273 pin is .25" shorter so one would have to look at, or ask KB about, the KB piston pin bosses and make sure the pin would bear a minimum of around 0.6" in each pin boss.

FWIW, the pins with the KB's and the stock pins are the same diameter. The difference is in the small end of the rod.... your 318 rods will have a slightly smaller hole in the small end than the pin diameter, for the interference fit of the pin. If you want to float them, then you have to hone the small ends out a bit and float the pins directly in the steel rod ends, or have the small ends bushed. The 273 pins are a bit shorter

Finding 273 pins will take some patience. They can be in good condition because they were in floating pin small rods, but can also be in poor condition. The critical thing is the fine polished finish; that is critical for pin operation. You might have to get 2 sets to get one good set of 8 out of them... won't be easy.

Easier is just to get a few new parts measurements done on your new KB's, and the rings, which you can do with a digital scale. Then get some help with the bobweight number and take the crank only to the shop and say "Balance the crank to this bobweight". Ask them how much it will cost. (Some won't like to do just that, but a reasonable shop will.) I have had it done for $100 and I think Pishta had paid something $75 there in SoCal. Dunno about your area....

BTW, what is the intended use for this car/engine?
 
That must have been many moons ago. I haven't seen steel shim head gaskets for 15 or 20 years.

1121G Mr Gasket 028 steel shim head gaskets
Can buy them anywhere, running them on my 360. Put them on couple years ago to help a bit with compression. Stock shortblock.
 
1121G Mr Gasket 028 steel shim head gaskets
Can buy them anywhere, running them on my 360. Put them on couple years ago to help a bit with compression. Stock shortblock.
Those are graphite core composition gaskets. not steel shim. Sorry.
 
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