89 360 vs 71 360

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69valiant21

69valiant21

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I am about to pull the trigger on a donor truck with an 89 360. So it should have a hyd roller yes?

I have read several forums, some very recent, and still am unclear if the roller lifter motor is a better starting point than my already owned 71 360 block. The plan at this point is a solid roller 408.

Yes I understand they need to be fluxed and ultrasonic and pick the better core blah blah blah.

BUT I am asking from a price and performance stand point, is it better to start with a roller lifter block? My current understanding is the lifter bore chamfers are cut consistently and the block is cut for the link bar, thus no grinding on the block and special retrofit lifters are not required.

Please clear this up for me before I commit to this donor.
 
Maybe. I have an 89 with a 318 and I don't think it's a roller. But the block will accept a roller.

Before you do anything regarding a build with HR lifters, search this forum and read what has been said about those overrated junky things.

It may save you a ton of money. And grief.
 
I have a roller LA360, and I am going solid flat tappet and ductile iron 1.5:1 rocker arms. I want to minimize the potential points of failure.

I can't remember what year the block is, somewhere between 89 and 91. It came with the 308 heads. One was cracked at the exhaust valve, so I had to buy another, so I'm into it for about 350 plus my gas.
 
YR, I have read many of your posts and am 100% NOT going HR. I said the plan is solid roller. And I was really looking forward to your response because I know you have the answers but its whether or not you decide to share.

You say is can accept a roller. Well any block can accept a roller, just depends how much money you want to throw at it right?

Ott, what points of failure are you reducing? A needle bearing exploding in your block? What other points of failure?
 
69valiant21 said:
... My current understanding is the lifter bore chamfers are cut consistently and the block is cut for the link bar, thus no grinding on the block and special retrofit lifters are not required.
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Roller blocks are a different casting. The lifter bore is taller, different geometry, and there is no relief for link bars. The OEM roller lifters did not use link bars, they use 'dog bone' retainers with a 'spider' hold-down. You can see them in the picture below. The 'spider' is what is held down by the three bolts in the cneter of the valley, and the 'dogbones' are what the 'fingers' are holding down. They have a 'double-d' shape which matches the lifter body and prevents the lifters from rotating. Using a roller block with 'retrofit' rollers can be a challenge, because the taller lifter bores may interfere with *some* link-bars.

What you want are solid lifters which are advertised as compatible with a magnum engine. There are several out there, but they tend to be small (.750) roller diameters. I have not seen anything advertised as magnum-compatible AND with a larger (.800+) roller. You'll have to contact the lifter manufacturers to find out if their link bars will clear a magnum block.

5.9l-magnum-engine-lifter-valley.jpg
 
Summit came up with a Crane lifter but their website does not mention it being compatible with the Magnums.

At this point I think Im leaning towards a SFT....
 
69valiant21 said:
YR, I have read many of your posts and am 100% NOT going HR. I said the plan is solid roller. And I was really looking forward to your response because I know you have the answers but its whether or not you decide to share.

You say is can accept a roller. Well any block can accept a roller, just depends how much money you want to throw at it right?

Ott, what points of failure are you reducing? A needle bearing exploding in your block? What other points of failure?
Click to expand...

  • needle bearings
  • roller rockers
  • lifters not pumping up or failure to bleed off appropriately
  • lower spring pressures with flat tappets vs rollers
  • reduced mass in the valve train
Every moving part is a potential point of failure, granted if you use quality parts, you reduce the probability of failure but i want to completely eliminate that potential as best as I can, and I want to rest easy knowing that if I **** up somehow and I knock it out of gear and it revs up to say... 9,000 I am less likely to cause damage.

It is all about risk mitigation.
So what if I have to check and if needed adjust the valves every year.
When I rode a motorcycle, I replaced the tires every year before the rains started.
 
In my experience those blocks have better material, machining and are better castings (less core shift than earlier blocks). The lifter bores are taller which means they would need to be machined down for most link bar lifters.
 
skrews said:
In my experience those blocks have better material, machining and are better castings (less core shift than earlier blocks). The lifter bores are taller which means they would need to be machined down for most link bar lifters.
Click to expand...

Are there other options than the link bar style lifter? Are there 'higher performance' factory style lifters?
 
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69valiant21 said:
Are there other options than the link bar style lifter? Are there 'higher performance' factory style lifters or will the stock lifters fit the bill to a certain HP?
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Not really any better options than link bars unles you want to go to key way lifters and that would be expensive and silly. Unless you are like me...half off your rocker and like to try stuff. But I can do my own machine work.

That said...I'd use the 360 block, solid roller lifters and I'd put a tube in the drivers side oil gallery (outlined in the DC and MP books and many other places) and plug off the oil supply to the drivers side gallery. I just block it off with a set screw in the feed hole but some guys drive a soft plug in the gallery and press it bad far enough to go past the feed hole coming up from the main, effectively block oil the lifters.

You do that and it won't matter if the chamfer at the top of the lifter bore is...let's say...generous. It won't matter...there is no oil there. You'll have better oil pressure, needless volume and won't have 16 leaks at the lifters.

Just my .02.

FWIW, the magnum block may be marginally tougher than the LA stuff, but after you bore, hone and machine enough blocks, you'll know that the LA block is tougher and harder than any production Ford or GM block.

To me, I wouldn't do the magnum block for what you want. Sell that and use the money to do what you want.
 
YR, I dont have a magnum block, nor am I looking to obtain a magnum block. Basically is the first year of the 360 (71 if Im not mistaken) which I own OR obtain one of the final years of the Non magnum 360 (89-92 if Im not mistaken) from this donor.
 
69valiant21 said:
YR, I dont have a magnum block, nor am I looking to obtain a magnum block. Basically is the first year of the 360 (71 if Im not mistaken) which I own OR obtain one of the final years of the Non magnum 360 (89-92 if Im not mistaken) from this donor.
Click to expand...


Got it. I'd use the earlier block. They changed the core boxes on the later castings and made the water jackets a different shape. That's when the first run of Chrylser heads started breaking and the blocks would fracture from the head bolt over to the water jacket. In fact, many of those blocks had open head bolts like a cheap assed Chevy. You may not have that. But I'd run the early block.
 
69valiant21 said:
YR, I dont have a magnum block, nor am I looking to obtain a magnum block. Basically is the first year of the 360 (71 if Im not mistaken) which I own OR obtain one of the final years of the Non magnum 360 (89-92 if Im not mistaken) from this donor.
Click to expand...

Your roller donor is effectively a magnum block with an oil hole that feeds LA style heads.
 
another thing to look at is big chamfers at the top of the lifter bores
too big and you will need to bush
I'd stay away from roller tip rockers unless you also spring for the B3 kit
go to B3racingengines.com and read all four tech articles
you are aware of the big lifter to pushrod angles on all LA motors
so you want to run the longest, biggest OD pushrods you can fit
so plan on some grinding
ask B3 about rocker choices or you can loose a lot of area under your new roller cam curve
 
Thanks for the info fellas.

I read the articles but did not see a recommendation for rockers. Maybe the pictures were to allow us to make our own decisions without actually backing one brand specifically? But the shim kit is definitely on my list if I go that route.
 
69valiant21 said:
Thanks for the info fellas.

I read the articles but did not see a recommendation for rockers. Maybe the pictures were to allow us to make our own decisions without actually backing one brand specifically? But the shim kit is definitely on my list if I go that route.
Click to expand...

I have never built a mopar small block , and have a question for u guys ; why cant u just turn the link bar type roller lifters around , instead of grinding the block ??
 
famous bob said:
I have never built a mopar small block , and have a question for u guys ; why cant u just turn the link bar type roller lifters around , instead of grinding the block ??
Click to expand...

Haven't tried it myself, but pretty sure the crappy lifter angle makes that a no-go.
 
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