A few questions about stroker small blocks

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harrisonm

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For quite a while, I have been seriously considering putting a stroked small block in my 69 340 4 speed Barracuda. The current 340 is built to about 375 HP now, and it is a blast to drive. I have even rat holed some money away for one. But the other day, I was cruising FABO and came across the video where the Engine Master guys tested a 360 and a stroked 360 with the same cam and heads. The stroker made a few more HP and more torque, but I'm not sure if the numbers were good enough to offset the extra cost of building a stroker. I was thinking that the stroker in this test probably did not perform the way I expected due to the heads. I assume that if yo are going to add 70 cubes, the heads better flow really well. Got me to wondering if a lightly built 440 (450 or so HP) might not be the way to go.
 
Will a 440 fit in your car without a ton of work? Plus new Trans. Go 408 & call it a day!
 
I made a thread just like this three months ago. It all comes down to whatever you want man. There is no right or wrong answer.

I am keeping mine stock stroke but I am shooting for 430 hp. I’ll be sure to let everyone knows the dyno results in a few weeks.
 
Most mopar heads stink in stock form, including edelbrocks, when trying to feed even a 360 engine.

There are decent heads that will make good power, IMM LAX iron and likely the new trick flow pieces. Other than those that are stock style replacement heads, you're going to be spending $ on porting to make power.

Have to get the air in and out. Would you run a marathon breathing through a drinking straw? That's most SB mopar cylinder heads in a nutshell.
 
Good analogy Rob! The as cast stock Edelbrock is OK for mild hopped up small block engines until about 370 cubes. No big cams.

If your 340 is worn out of your just looking for added power, the stroker needs a good head. A ported Edelbrock will provide the airflow capability as well as the LAX head well ported.

Other head options that state better flow would be the Edelbrock Victor head and the trick flow head. Be aware of the hidden costs. Or odd part that may go with the head upgrades.
 
If your 340 is worn out of your just looking for added power, the stroker needs a good head. A ported Edelbrock will provide the airflow capability as well as the LAX head well ported.
Absolutely true... and with better heads the stroker will bring you from 375 to maybe 500 horses (Mopar horses, not Chevy).
It will still be a simple drop in, in contrast to swapping to a 440 that weighs a ton more and is a much tighter fit.
 
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For quite a while, I have been seriously considering putting a stroked small block in my 69 340 4 speed Barracuda. The current 340 is built to about 375 HP now, and it is a blast to drive. I have even rat holed some money away for one. But the other day, I was cruising FABO and came across the video where the Engine Master guys tested a 360 and a stroked 360 with the same cam and heads. The stroker made a few more HP and more torque, but I'm not sure if the numbers were good enough to offset the extra cost of building a stroker. I was thinking that the stroker in this test probably did not perform the way I expected due to the heads. I assume that if yo are going to add 70 cubes, the heads better flow really well. Got me to wondering if a lightly built 440 (450 or so HP) might not be the way to go.

I built AND tested my first 408 way back in 2003-2004. Mildly worked some J heads and put a healthy solid cam and 273 rockers on it with an Edelbrock Torker manifold. Made a mind numbing -LOL 465 HP @ a(warp speed) 5200 RPM 528 TQ @ 4300 RPM-felt big blockish for about a second or two on the street-and was not really any more fun or quicker-on the street than the 367 (381hp/417tq) that it replaced. The 360 was so much easier to hook up and revved like a chainsaw in comparison-don't get me wrong here the 367 could melt the tires at will. The 408 was very difficult to launch properly and it had a MOMENT of greatness and then it was over. Gonna stroke it? HEADS, HEADS, HEADS. Unless its for a boat or a tow truck but then I'm on the wrong forum.

The EngineMasters test is not a surprise whatsoever and everyone falls into the trap of TORQUE-TORQUE-TORQUE. Problem is the pendulum has swung way too far the other way. It's all about balance and without balance the driving experience is diminshed greatly. J.Rob

p.s. Don't go bigblock-refer back to balance statement, it applies in more ways than one.
 
Most mopar heads stink in stock form, including edelbrocks, when trying to feed even a 360 engine.

There are decent heads that will make good power, IMM LAX iron and likely the new trick flow pieces. Other than those that are stock style replacement heads, you're going to be spending $ on porting to make power.

Have to get the air in and out. Would you run a marathon breathing through a drinking straw? That's most SB mopar cylinder heads in a nutshell.
Absolutely true... and with better heads the stroker will bring you from 375 to maybe 500 horses (Mopar horses, not Chevy).
And it still will be a simple drop in, in contrast to swapping to a 440 that weighs a ton more and is a much tighter fit.

I built AND tested my first 408 way back in 2003-2004. Mildly worked some J heads and put a healthy solid cam and 273 rockers on it with an Edelbrock Torker manifold. Made a mind numbing -LOL 465 HP @ a(warp speed) 5200 RPM 528 TQ @ 4300 RPM-felt big blockish for about a second or two on the street-and was not really any more fun or quicker-on the street than the 367 (381hp/417tq) that it replaced. The 360 was so much easier to hook up and revved like a chainsaw in comparison-don't get me wrong here the 367 could melt the tires at will. The 408 was very difficult to launch properly and it had a MOMENT of greatness and then it was over. Gonna stroke it? HEADS, HEADS, HEADS. Unless its for a boat or a tow truck but then I'm on the wrong forum.

The EngineMasters test is not a surprise whatsoever and everyone falls into the trap of TORQUE-TORQUE-TORQUE. Problem is the pendulum has swung way too far the other way. It's all about balance and without balance the driving experience is diminshed greatly. J.Rob

p.s. Don't go bigblock-refer back to balance statement, it applies in more ways than one.

Any small block Chrysler, stock stroke or stroker, is screaming, "PLEASE give me a good cylinder head!" To try to make real horsepower with any stock or unported head is foolish.
 
That to me is the point of a stroker.

Jeff
Agreed but there is such a thing as too much-especially with a powerband that is supremely stunted. J.Rob
Yes Jeff, IT IS! I’m totally for it! But as J.Rob pointed that is, that while a massive amount of torque is cool and what provides the awesome feel in the street car and lowers et on the race cars 60’, without a decent set of heads, you have that well labeled “tow truck” engine moniker. When that top end punch is missing, everything is short sold. This! I think, is the unsaid lesson in (or emphasized in) the engine masters show. The ported Head lesson (for the Mopar 408 only comparison, but seen in other episodes & engines) is the value of better flowing or ported heads. As the hosts say, always get/use the best cylinder head you can.

Someone may say it is pointless to build a stroker without the heads (or other equipment) to properly feed it. I say build it or otherwise you’ll regret never doing it. You can always use a solid foundation and work on the rest of it later as money allows.

I have a B block 400 in a Duster now. While tighter than a small block, the swap, was a lot of work & $$$ that was IMO a wash considering the equal power levels between the LA and B engines.

So to all, if your thinking B/RB A body, weight think it best to make that B/RB a killer engine or stay with the LA. Your going to spend a lot of money ether way.
 
For quite a while, I have been seriously considering putting a stroked small block in my 69 340 4 speed Barracuda. The current 340 is built to about 375 HP now, and it is a blast to drive. I have even rat holed some money away for one. But the other day, I was cruising FABO and came across the video where the Engine Master guys tested a 360 and a stroked 360 with the same cam and heads. The stroker made a few more HP and more torque, but I'm not sure if the numbers were good enough to offset the extra cost of building a stroker. I was thinking that the stroker in this test probably did not perform the way I expected due to the heads. I assume that if yo are going to add 70 cubes, the heads better flow really well. Got me to wondering if a lightly built 440 (450 or so HP) might not be the way to go.

Fitment can cost money as well, remember that room isn't plentiful on an a body when it comes to big blocks.
The price diff is around a couple hundred dollars between a stroker kit and remaining the old rotating assembly.
That test shows what the wrong cam can do with small heads on 410, and how port volume will lend advantage or disadvantage
Had they had 180cc ports...the 410 would have hung on longer in the rpm and made a few more than it did...its all as simple as proportion.

Now you must look at the thing that moves you up to speed, it's called torque, the 410 makes more than the 360 "equipped the same". You could argue not, but if your doors in it all the time to keep up...there goes the mpg argument. The 410 is a compact 440, it's stealth and it's cheaper in the long run.
 
As others have stated, if you go the stroker route get W2 heads, worked Edelbrock heads, or something else that will flow around 300 cfm otherwise you are not utilizing the potential the extra stroke is offering. It is my opinion a well thought out 360 will make a person happier than a stroker limited by mismatched heads.
 
I read what you guys are saying about the heads, true yeah... sucks.
For most making mid 500hp You only need 185-195 cc intake ports... but all the affordable heads come 171cc and flow as would an x head if it were enlarged 16 cc' s but with a better exhaust port. Some of you know what I'm saying is right on, and others, well...go back and re-read iron mikes ordeal with using a head with TOO MUCH port volume. Go watch enginetard masters with the lisping douche and autistic dulcich clown.
It's got to have a good velocity...the old saying of the most flow through the smallest port, the carb isn't the only thing stirring it up.
Edelbrock heads are not worth messing with unless you port them or have NO heads to start.
 
Thanks for all the comments. Every time I get to thinking I am pretty knowledgeable, I hear from my FABO buddies, and I realize how little I really know. From what I am reading, it sounds like some Eddy heads with a little work on a 340 might be the way to go. I have J heads with 2.02 valves now. Are they worth spending 'porting' money on? I have read a lot about W2 heads, but that would mean new headers and intake, right?
 
I read what you guys are saying about the heads, true yeah... sucks.
For most making mid 500hp You only need 185-195 cc intake ports... but all the affordable heads come 171cc and flow as would an x head if it were enlarged 16 cc' s but with a better exhaust port. Some of you know what I'm saying is right on, and others, well...go back and re-read iron mikes ordeal with using a head with TOO MUCH port volume. Go watch enginetard masters with the lisping douche and autistic dulcich clown.
It's got to have a good velocity...the old saying of the most flow through the smallest port, the carb isn't the only thing stirring it up.
Edelbrock heads are not worth messing with unless you port them or have NO heads to start.
A good set good Eddie heads, ported by someone who knows how, works very well on a 408. Low to mid 500 Torque and HP on mine.
 
Thanks for all the comments. Every time I get to thinking I am pretty knowledgeable, I hear from my FABO buddies, and I realize how little I really know. From what I am reading, it sounds like some Eddy heads with a little work on a 340 might be the way to go. I have J heads with 2.02 valves now. Are they worth spending 'porting' money on? I have read a lot about W2 heads, but that would mean new headers and intake, right?
W2 heads require specific intake, rockers, exhaust. It is a large initial investment but they do perform.
 
Having originally built a stoke stroke motor for my 69 Dart this time I went with a stroker for my 68 Dart. Both engines had very similar builds (unported Edelbrock heads, roller rockers, similar cams, same intake, same carb, same headers) and the 340 made 390 hp at the crank while my 408 made 485. I can't remember torque on my 340 but the 408 makes way more (511 at 4300 rpm). Even with unported Edeobrock heads it still maintained 475ish lb/ft torque from 3500 to 5300 which is a pretty nice torque curve imo. Eventually I plan to have Brian at IMM or someone else port these heads to unleash the motors full potential but for now I couldn't be happier with the torque and hp my stroker made.

I thought about going big block route and actually had a 500 stroker all lined up for my Dart. After figuring out cost with a new trans, motor mounts, TTI headers, new radiator, etc I just decided it wasn't worth it when I could make big block power with a small block stroker. Either way you go though I'm sure you'll love it.
 
For some time now the 4" bore 4" stroke has become the be all to end all?
On the street the light LA stroker seems well suited to a heavy sedan or truck
with it's higher torque, but not necessarily the best match for a 3200 lb A body.
A warm 340, 360 or 372 can be hard to improve on in a light A body as an all
around performer.
 
For quite a while, I have been seriously considering putting a stroked small block in my 69 340 4 speed Barracuda. The current 340 is built to about 375 HP now, and it is a blast to drive. I have even rat holed some money away for one. But the other day, I was cruising FABO and came across the video where the Engine Master guys tested a 360 and a stroked 360 with the same cam and heads. The stroker made a few more HP and more torque, but I'm not sure if the numbers were good enough to offset the extra cost of building a stroker. I was thinking that the stroker in this test probably did not perform the way I expected due to the heads. I assume that if yo are going to add 70 cubes, the heads better flow really well. Got me to wondering if a lightly built 440 (450 or so HP) might not be the way to go.
The stroker option is gonna run you roughly $3,000 in parts and machine work given you do the labor. You'll get about the same horsepower and more torque than your current setup at a lower rpm.

Option 2. Good heads, intake, cam, gears. You'll have about the same torque as your current setup, but a lot more horsepower and a wider powerband.

Option 3. Go buy a Torqstorm supercharger and you win all around and you're done in an afternoon.
 
I built AND tested my first 408 way back in 2003-2004. Mildly worked some J heads and put a healthy solid cam and 273 rockers on it with an Edelbrock Torker manifold. Made a mind numbing -LOL 465 HP @ a(warp speed) 5200 RPM 528 TQ @ 4300 RPM-felt big blockish for about a second or two on the street-and was not really any more fun or quicker-on the street than the 367 (381hp/417tq) that it replaced. The 360 was so much easier to hook up and revved like a chainsaw in comparison-don't get me wrong here the 367 could melt the tires at will. The 408 was very difficult to launch properly and it had a MOMENT of greatness and then it was over. Gonna stroke it? HEADS, HEADS, HEADS. Unless its for a boat or a tow truck but then I'm on the wrong forum.

The EngineMasters test is not a surprise whatsoever and everyone falls into the trap of TORQUE-TORQUE-TORQUE. Problem is the pendulum has swung way too far the other way. It's all about balance and without balance the driving experience is diminshed greatly. J.Rob

p.s. Don't go bigblock-refer back to balance statement, it applies in more ways than one.


This post should be made a gold star stickie. And then, once a month it should be used as a thread starter.

This one post would save a bunch of bandwidth.
 
I read what you guys are saying about the heads, true yeah... sucks.
For most making mid 500hp You only need 185-195 cc intake ports... but all the affordable heads come 171cc and flow as would an x head if it were enlarged 16 cc' s but with a better exhaust port.
And that’s about close to what an X head will flow if the casting is good. Some do better. Nether here or there at the moment. It’s a bit of a jump from the Edelbrock and the like castings to the Victor with nothing in between.
Edelbrock heads are not worth messing with unless you port them or have NO heads to start.
I think there ok & fine for mild street builds. Really putting the screws to a small block? Naaa, move up time!

W2 heads require specific intake, rockers, exhaust. It is a large initial investment but they do perform.
And that’s the W2 draw back. Oval ports and wider bolt spacing. I can live with the off set rocker deal.
For some time now the 4" bore 4" stroke has become the be all to end all?
On the street the light LA stroker seems well suited to a heavy sedan or truck
with it's higher torque, but not necessarily the best match for a 3200 lb A body.
A warm 340, 360 or 372 can be hard to improve on in a light A body as an all
around performer.
The problem with street bound rides is hook up. All that torque off the starting line becomes harder and harder to get to the pavement unless you really start to invest heavily there.

This is why I like the 360/372 set ups. A little less torque on street tires isn’t Necessarily a bad thing. Blowing your tires off the starting line isn’t helping anything. As the old saying goes, “Spinning ain’t winning!”

This post should be made a gold star stickie. And then, once a month it should be used as a thread starter.

This one post would save a bunch of bandwidth.
LMAO! How sweet and true it is....
Thanks for all the comments. Every time I get to thinking I am pretty knowledgeable, I hear from my FABO buddies, and I realize how little I really know. From what I am reading, it sounds like some Eddy heads with a little work on a 340 might be the way to go. I have J heads with 2.02 valves now. Are they worth spending 'porting' money on? I have read a lot about W2 heads, but that would mean new headers and intake, right?
Harrisonm, like everything else about cars, you do things a certain way for a certain reason because you want to do it that way.
If it were myself, on my only car build, I would not mess with the iron head. You could possible have them ported to a “Well preped “ Edelbrock head but be aware that the head has a ceiling limited and weight penalties that you may not want to stop at or be limited to.

You would do the OE head because you want to. And no other reason. It’s like doing a 6 pack. The cost vs performance doesn’t add up. But you buy and use one because you want to.

If I was starting fresh on a stroker build with big streetable power, I would be looking at the Trick Flows since they have a standard exhaust port for regular headers. The Victors immediate draw back is W5 styled exhaust. There is 1 and only 1 maker of this header for that head. And that is tti.
 
My 408 is in a car that was setup for Drag's. don't know how it hooked, or if it did. Plenty for the street!!!

20171104_172745.jpg
 
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