A Little Electrical (House) Help Please....

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If you pigtailed them out from a wire nut on the main circuit, you'd only have one set of wires to each switch, then one set to the load.

Of course, your also increasing the wires in that wire nut from the main circuit...

...but you're removing the downstream failure potential.

Must be a "cheap" way to get a neutral up to the load, rather than "just" running a 2 conductor down from the load to the switch, like "normal".
 
YY1 said:
If you pigtailed them out from a wire nut on the main circuit, you'd only have one set of wires to each switch, then one set to the load.

Of course, your also increasing the wires in that wire nut from the main circuit...

...but you're removing the downstream failure potential.

Must be a "cheap" way to get a neutral up to the load, rather than "just" running a 2 conductor down from the load to the switch, like "normal".
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Yeah more Greek. Ok. LOL Look, I have as much electrical know how as an accountant has about mechanical work. Probably less.
 
Here's what is being said

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I'd bet there's no neutral up there at the light and fan except for what comes from the switch.

You'd have to wire nut those together.

I was an apprentice for almost three years and I've never seen anything wired that way.

Not a lot of mobile home work I can remember, though.

Maybe that's a mobile home thing. IDK about that.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Would some of you kind fellers please tell me how I change these type switches out?
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Contact an Electrician who will do the job in no time at all and save you from potential pain as in a shock. :)
 

kiwigtx said:
No....I give everyone one free consultation.

Tools come out and then you pay. :lol:
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Well, I got my own shop wired, so I think I can get this done. There are just so many wires it seems like they are unnecessary.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
Well, I got my own ship wired, so I think I can get this done. There are just so many wires it seems like they are unnecessary.
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Install one of these and you have bases covered. :lol:

Catholic switch.jpg



BTW ..ship wiring is a whole different kettle of fish.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I meant shop wired. LOL I fixed it.
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Thanks. I worked under an older guy as an apprentice - he worked six months of the year on ships as a Maintenance Electrician. When he was on leave he helped out where I worked. Recently I had to help a fellow sparkie diagnose a problem gate system. The homeowners had claimed insurance on the job and power kept tripping on one circuit.

Long story short is that the homeowner turned out to be the very same man - I hadn't seen him in nearly 40 years. We both had a double-take looking at each other, then realised we were old friends. Turns out the electrical problem was his own doing, and a hideous junction behind his kitchen wall was to blame.

His wife had stated that he was no good at domestic wiring. :lol:
 
RustyRatRod said:
Wow. Thanks for drawing that out. So are you actually saying I can get by with TWO wires per switch? Why in the HELL didn't they wire it like that to begin with?
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Yes. Basic switches only interrupt the black wire.

From your picture of the old exposed wiring in the switch, it appears that all wires are black, white and Copper. The reason they are inside that switch is that there is no electrical box to keep them protected. Looking closely, you can see that the white is simply connected to the white, and the copper to the copper. This would normally be handled using marettes inside the box.
 
I am so glad I live in a country where the colour codes are so obvious an idiot could wire a switch. :lol:

Bare earth cables (ground) were banned here in the '70's.

BTW ....wire-nuts should be reserved for automotive use only. Also not legal for use here.
 
Yeah, much easier lol. Brown = Black, Blue = White, Bare (or sometimes Green) = green.

In three wire we use red to indicate the different circuit. What is used there?
 
OneOfMany said:
Yeah, much easier lol. Brown = Black, Blue = White, Bare (or sometimes Green) = green.

In three wire we use red to indicate the different circuit. What is used there?
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House-hold wiring -
1761597944960.png


Three-phase - different colour sheaths are now available - yellow indicates lighting control (two-way etc), blue = A/C, purple = non-migratory which is able to lay besides polystyrene and other invasive plastics, red = fire etc.
We also now have a red stripe down the length which indicates the live wire on single-phase cables - useful for inline applications.
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We follow the International wiring colour codes here.
A variety of neutral screen cables also....hundreds to choose from.

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Rob, if you're still in process of fixing it....get a box like in post #12, 2 switches and a double cover. Get a pack of wire nuts if you don't already have some. You'll have one wire coming in and two going out. Use the jumper wire that you were holding in the one pic to make a black pig tail to go to the 2nd switch, like @OneOfMany shows in his drawing. Make 2 pig tails for the bare wires to ground your new switches on the green screw. Just make sure the bare wires clear the hot wires on the sides of the switch when you stuff it all back in the box. I just had to do this same job for our neighbor down the street in the campground. She had a park model that is basically a mini mobile home, and it had the same switches with no box like yours. Those little jaws that bite into the wire give up after several years and don't work at all, or make things flicker. If you ever have to do plugs, just use that same style box. Just remember on plugs, black wire to the gold screw, white wire to the silver screw, bare wire to the green screw. That's the electrical version of hot's on the left, cold's on the right and crap won't run uphill if you're plumbing...lol.
 
JDMopar said:
Rob, if you're still in process of fixing it....get a box like in post #12, 2 switches and a double cover. Get a pack of wire nuts if you don't already have some. You'll have one wire coming in and two going out. Use the jumper wire that you were holding in the one pic to make a black pig tail to go to the 2nd switch, like @OneOfMany shows in his drawing. Make 2 pig tails for the bare wires to ground your new switches on the green screw. Just make sure the bare wires clear the hot wires on the sides of the switch when you stuff it all back in the box. I just had to do this same job for our neighbor down the street in the campground. She had a park model that is basically a mini mobile home, and it had the same switches with no box like yours. Those little jaws that bite into the wire give up after several years and don't work at all, or make things flicker. If you ever have to do plugs, just use that same style box. Just remember on plugs, black wire to the gold screw, white wire to the silver screw, bare wire to the green screw. That's the electrical version of hot's on the left, cold's on the right and crap won't run uphill if you're plumbing...lol.
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I haven't put it back together yet. There's also an extra circuit that @OneOfMany didn't know about, so there's four sets of wires there. They also wired the hall light just outside the bathroom into "all this".
 
Are they two way switch? One light powered by two switches? I’m not an electrician
 
Jeez, what a mess.
Yeah, 'old work' box will let you mount to the drywall. I don't go this way if there are teenagers in the house that punch the switches instead of using normal amounts of force.

I always tie the fart fan into the light switch. Then the damned teenagers can't take a shower and peel the paint in the bathroom because they won't use the fan. And it simplifies the wiring.

Goddamn teenagers.
 
Seems like you have a choice to-

A- rewire everything to be more "standard" with a neutral going to each load and not through the switch, and then switching only the hot

or

B- put it all back like it was.

Did you ever actually find where the "fault" was causing the GFI to trip prematurely?
 
FISHYPETE said:
Are they two way switch? One light powered by two switches? I’m not an electrician
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No sir. One switch for the light, the other for the fan. And in between "all this mess" somehow, the hall light gets fed and the GFCI receptacle about a foot away from the switches gets fed.
 
YY1 said:
Seems like you have a choice to-

A- rewire everything to be more "standard" with a neutral going to each load and not through the switch, and then switching only the hot

or

B- put it all back like it was.

Did you ever actually find where the "fault" was causing the GFI to trip prematurely?
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I have not. I am "assuming" (dangerous, I know) that it is the receptacle itself. I think I want to try your first option. I put it all back like it was this morning, because one or two of the wires were loose on the back of the switches. But the switches themselves are bad. You have to hold the switches in a hard on position to get them to work. Sometimes they will continue to work, sometimes the light goes out when you release the switch. So the switches need replacing.
 
The GFI should be on the panel side of any other receps.
That way any recep downstream, trips the GFI. (IE the GFI should not be "fed by" anything other than the panel)

Can you source those switches?
If not, you may not have an option other than rewire it all "standard".

You can get "Wiremold" type boxes that mount on the drywall.
I know MH wall material sometimes does not leave much space between the exterior wall and the back of the interior wall.

Do you have a good quality electrical tester?

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