A question that I am not sure how to even ask...

Slant 6 Engines

  1. The DC

    The DC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    U.S.
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    Okay, this sounds crazy, and I have no doubt in reading this you'll initially roll your eyes, but I have a puzzler that defies every bit of experience that I have had with a car.

    I just bought a 1962 Dodge Lancer A body. I decided to change the oil for the first time. I followed the standard process; removing the plug, dumping the old oil, oiling and swapping the oil filter, and then dropping 5 quarts [4+1 for the filter] into the oil fill at the front top of the 170 Six slant.

    Easy, right?

    After a while I started the engine up and got the oil light. I checked the dip stick; dry.

    Now I had opened a new 5.25 container of oil, but I dropped a half quart more in to find nothing on the stick. I then opened the oils plug and only a little came out. I checked the oil filter; dry!

    I called my father who advised I dump another couple of quarts, [not turn it on of course] and see if it was somehow draining out without my notice. No dice.

    So here I am with 7 quarts of oil in the engine, nothing in the oil pan, none flushed into the filter for the short time that I had the engine on, and nothing spilling onto the paper I lay below it to discover where the leak was [I was pretty desperate for any answer at that point; seven quarts would have rivaled exxon's last spill].

    Because of the baffle I cant see down into the case, nor run a straw or small hose to see if [somehow] it had gotten stuck in the valve cover case.

    I am stumped. Is it possible that the oil somehow isn't draining into the oil pan from the head?

    If so, beside pulling the valve cover off and risking a deluge over the sides of my old block, is there any wisdom out there for a situation that I frankly do not understand, but has clearly happened?

    Let me clarify; 7 quarts total-
    no oil on the stick-
    none spilling from the oil pan-
    none made its way into the oil filter-
    no spillage, leaks stains, or anything that fits in with my experience of physical laws of science and nature.

    Is it possible that this old neglected engine sludged up that much?

    Anyway to test?

    Pretty confused...
     
  2. Oklacarcollecto

    Oklacarcollecto Life is an experiment

    Messages:
    17,036
    Likes Received:
    301
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Location:
    North Central Oklahoma
    Local Time:
    12:29 AM
    Pull the drain plug and let it drain out to see what you have. If you have 7 plus quarts it could be the wrong dipstick.

    If there is no oil in the pan it sounds like it has to be a sludge problem. Pull the valve cover off and see what you have.
     
  3. autopar3000

    autopar3000 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    LOL, that motor is like Dr. Who's phone booth; bigger on the inside than it is on the outside!

    I have no idea what kind of voodoo you're dealing with there, but I can't wait to hear what's going on!
     
  4. Bad Sport

    Bad Sport HALF A BUBBLE OFF Staff Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    43,294
    Likes Received:
    30749
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Location:
    The Wolverine
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    Wow, your first post certainly is a head scratcher.
     
  5. RedFish

    RedFish FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    25,284
    Likes Received:
    4009
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Local Time:
    12:29 AM
    Walk away, Come back tomorrow morn and find more than full reading on the stcick. The oil drains are very clogged but it will run down over enough time. Gravity at work.
     
  6. Rocky_JS

    Rocky_JS 'cuda

    Messages:
    4,187
    Likes Received:
    166
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Location:
    Highland Maryland
    Local Time:
    10:29 PM
    sludge in the top end? not allowing the oil to drain back into the pan? if you can, see if the valve cover is full of oil.
     
  7. The DC

    The DC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    U.S.
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    I admit, I have never seen anthing like this either.

    I had pulled the drain plug earlier, as I stated in the post, but only a half quart came back out; most of it fresh oil. The dip stick is as dry as my ideas.

    After posting I went to get a wide pan to put under the car to catch the oil once I pull the cover off, to avoid a BP incident in my state. I've left the car for hours now and gravity isn't a match for whatever is keeping the oil from draining down to the pan. Like I said, the stick is dry.

    I can't see inside from the spill cap because of the baffle. I did try probing with a straw, hoping to strike some oil and then use the technique to employ a pump to draw off some oil before removing the head, but I could only get it past the baffle a few inches and got only limited amounts of sludge on it; no fresh oil.

    I have never heard of an engine being so sludge filled to obstruct oil, but physics and experience has offered me no other idea, let alone solution. The volume of the head might be able to hold that much oil, and the compression of the engine should have at least pumped it down, even past heavy sludge, I would have thought. This has really stumped me; a hard way to get back into mopars!

    Are there any other possibilities that you have encountered?

    Is it possible for sludge to be so thick as to do this or am I missing the obvious?

    What is the solution regarding heavy sludge, if so?

    Thanks for the interest. After so many years of turning wrenches, this stumped me and shook my confidence. I have never evenheard of anything like this happening before, no matter how old the car.

    Again thanks,

    DC
     
  8. BrianT

    BrianT Let's go! FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    5,409
    Likes Received:
    1283
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Location:
    Kansas City, Mo
    Local Time:
    12:29 AM
    On a 51 year old engine?!? Yes. You're going to have to pull the valve cover and see what's going on.

    There is currently another thread active about a sludged up motor and different opinions and ideas of how to clean it out. I would try to find that thread. Lots of good ideas. Good luck!
     
  9. bigblockbird

    bigblockbird Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    :happy1:
     
  10. VDART

    VDART Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Location:
    heizer ks
    Local Time:
    12:29 AM
    any pics? where did you dump the oil? hopefully not the transmission tube? This is a slant 6 car correct? Lawrence
     
  11. 70DartMike

    70DartMike Too many projects

    Messages:
    7,672
    Likes Received:
    905
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver Island, Canada
    Local Time:
    10:29 PM
    This is what I was going to suggest.
     
  12. mopar jimmie

    mopar jimmie Mopar Jimmie

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    90
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    nj
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    If it was running ok before the oil change and the valve cover was not holding the engine oil , then a plugged oil return is not the issue . VDART may have the best possible daignosis , maybe you did fill the trans with engine oil . but really theres really not many places for 7 qts of oil to hide in any engine , i cant wait to hear th outcome of this one
     
  13. RedFish

    RedFish FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    25,284
    Likes Received:
    4009
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Local Time:
    12:29 AM
    A slant six valve cover will hold a lot of oil. There could be more than a couple of quarts already drained down that wouldn't appear on the stick.
    I suspect you will find what looks like black candle wax caked up on everything under the cover.
     
  14. Rocky_JS

    Rocky_JS 'cuda

    Messages:
    4,187
    Likes Received:
    166
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Location:
    Highland Maryland
    Local Time:
    10:29 PM
    yes, I have seen engines clogged in this fashion, more than a few, early Chevy's mostly.

    If you put the oil in the engine, it is not leaking, or pouring out the tail pipe, not registering on the stick and the oil light is on. There really is no where else it could be.

    I would jack up the back of the car to get the oil going in one direction, pull the valve cover and clear the obstruction clean/rod/ scrape it out trying to minimize what goes back in the engine.
    After you get the heavy stuff out. There are engine flushes, gunk makes one, And some shops have a machine that can do it with a chemical. I have mixed feelings about this, but haven't had bad experiences using this equipment either.
     
  15. Darter6

    Darter6 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,238
    Likes Received:
    2772
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Location:
    Nevada
    Local Time:
    10:29 PM
    Had this happen to a poly 318,Pulled the valve covers and most of the oil came spilling out.Used coat hangers to open the drain back holes. Never thought a slant valve cover could hold 7 quarts though....
     
  16. luckysgarage

    luckysgarage Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Location:
    S.W. MI
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    :happy1:
     
  17. Dartnut

    Dartnut Don't hate me because i'm beautiful

    Messages:
    12,253
    Likes Received:
    5696
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Location:
    Southern Alberta
    Local Time:
    11:29 PM
    I would just pull the valve cover off.
    If you don't want to do that, then i would try some compressed air in the valve cover to see if it forces the oil down.
    Then pull the valve cover and clean all of the gunk that's in there.
    Let's see some pics of what's under the valve cover......
     
  18. Danarchy

    Danarchy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    18
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Location:
    Texas
    Local Time:
    12:29 AM
    In my 1964 225 Slant 6 with a WIX 51515 oil filter change I use just over 6 quarts to be just below Full on the dipstick.
    I am afraid that when you start to unbolt the valve cover, you will have a huge mess. Unless you filled the transmission with oil???:wack:
     
  19. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    88,183
    Likes Received:
    71296
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    Pull the valve cover off. You're going to have to do it anyway.
     
  20. The DC

    The DC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    U.S.
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    Thanks.

    There are only two dipsticks for this car, the one on the driver's side for oil, and the one on the passenger, coming about of the tranny for the auto.

    I have a feeling that you are right about the sludge.
     
  21. The DC

    The DC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    U.S.
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    No, the tranny fluid goes in the tranny box filler tube. I filled the oil access on the top of the valve head; its the breather access.

    I'm surprised that your car takes 6 quarts as the shop manual and owner's manual stipulates 4+1, but maybe the blocks are different? I don't now, I don't have a '64.

    In any case, the oil went into the fill but has not spilled into the il[an, so something is clogging it up.

    Thanks for the help...
     
  22. The DC

    The DC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    U.S.
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    Thanks much for the suggestion. I'll head over there to that thread. I've never seen sludge that bad, but then again, my family was always big about maintaining cars per schedules. I hadn't bought a used car in quite a while, so you may be on target.

    I'll pull the head this week, weather permitting. I did run a probe into the valve cover, even past the baffle, but got nothing back. Then again, there's a lot of square inches under that cover to hide a world of oil and sins...
     
  23. The DC

    The DC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    8
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    U.S.
    Local Time:
    1:29 AM
    No, don't worry...

    The tranny tube is on the other side of the block, connected to the tranny.

    The oil access is still the factory breather plug with "OIL" stanped twice, back to back, on the top.

    Yes, to your other question, she's a 170, Slant Six, 2.8 liter.

    Thanks for the concern...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • The DC

      The DC Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      83
      Likes Received:
      8
      Joined:
      Jun 24, 2013
      Location:
      U.S.
      Local Time:
      1:29 AM
      Yea, I agree, as she was running alright prior to this first oil change. But the oil went somewhere.

      As for the amount, this is a big block and could hold it, it just shouldn't be put into it. A friend, a shade tree mechanic, suggested that I add kerosine, but I'm thinking it better to pull the valve cover off and see what i can clean before I try thinning things out to dump deeper inside.

      Those who have suggested that it will be a mess, I agree and do not look forward to the task, but weather permitting, I'll crack her open and see whether the "candle wax" is clogging things up.

      If I can get her open, and if I an clean out some sludge, I'll see what the recommended "sludge thread" suggests before trying the old kerosine ploy. I am concerned about how much that would affect the seals and gaskets in a car this old.

      I know that older cars ran on that, but that was almost a century before on a different block, and this one has seen many a year and mile...

      Suggestions?
       
    • 64ragtop

      64ragtop Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      986
      Likes Received:
      43
      Joined:
      Jan 14, 2005
      Location:
      South Austin, Texas
      Local Time:
      12:29 AM
      The suspense is killin' me! I kinda like the idea of raising the rear of the car so when ya get stuff coming out of the valve cover
      at least SOME of it will drain in a limited area. It might be easier to raise the passenger side and put that wide pan under the starter. Hell, it's gonna be a colossal mess wherever it goes anyway.
      Good luck, and HURRY UP!!! (LOL)

      BC
       
    1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
      By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.