A Rant About Big Shops And Stealerships And BS

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Ant

Ant

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I've seen enough, people getting ripped off by by big name national repair chains and dealerships. It's out of control and this has been an issue for years. Not only has this created trust issues with people labeling hard working techs as thieves, but has also contributed to the so called auto technician shortage which is mosty BS anyway.

Let me explain, the low pay is one of the things that is contributing to auto techs leaving the field, but I really understand the reason why some places just don't have enough work for flat- rate workers. It's ******* GREED! These big name franchise shops and dealerships owners seem to be following a trend of overcharging or overestimating the cost for repairs. It's not just more expensive labor and parts anymore, it's added make believe labor and way overcharging for more expensive parts. I'm not talking about ten or twenty dollars more here and there, no, no. It's now more like hundreds to a thousand dollars more tacked on the normal cost. Way overestimated work just causes a lot of people to go somewhere else, which means the mechanics working on the terrible flat-rate system don't get work to do and make money. Well... that's the theory, and I have known a few guys (pre 2020) who have worked in the dealership mentioning how slow things get.

Like I said, this has been going on for years, but I think it has been getting worse. Anyway, story time! I just did a simple front brake pad replacement for someone, it was quick and easy, it's the type of jobs I like. Anyway the reason why they came to me is because their quoted cost from a big national chain/franchise was over $600 USD. This is for a cheap Honda Civic by the way, with nothing fancy. 600 DOLLARS! That shop claimed it needed front pads and rotors, ok. HOW?! EFFEN HOW IS THIS 600 DOLLARS?! Also, it did not even need rotors, just pads. Even at the $150 an hour they charge, I can't get as high as their estimate, not even close. This place who will not name, but don't trust their touch, has given me plenty of reasons to not respect, anyone's advice from there. In fact a few or so years ago, they rejected to diagnostic work for the same person on a different vehicle because the scanner could not tell them which cylinder was misfiring. The code that came up was PO300, again those so called "professional auto technicians" could not find which cylinder was misfiring and why because their scanner couldn't tell them. I had no problem finding out the issue, which was a coil pack with a broken connection. I did not need a scanner, so I did not use one, I just used the traditional way of FINDING A MISFRE with literal garbage from my toolbox.

To finish now, these places should really rip the ASE posters off their walls and the badges off their shirts. It's pretty shameful what they do and try to get away with, but hey, there is a bright side. Thanks to them I've gotten some work from their dumb business losing decisions.
 
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I worked at a stealership for all of my adult life. I couldn't take the soccer moms.gettomg raped anymore and quit. Its a miracle this new vehicle just out of warranty needs 6000 dollars worth of work just to be safe....but a lot of times its the service writer and how they are paid. Many have zero automotive clue and just swallow the story that the tech tells them. And some of those techs are scumbags. Some of my friends own service stations and they get lots of business from people with sticker shock that come to them with an estimate for a second opinion. But to be fair you can't compare the pricing of aftermarket stuff to factory which includes replacing the part if it fails under warranty. You quickly learn who the dirtbags are that want to sell everything and again the clueless service writer gets a piece of the pie so they push unnecessary services.
 
In dealerships especially the mechanic always gets the short end of the stick. He gets screwed on warranty work. The same job on customer pay will pay 2.3 hours, but warranty will only allow .8. Also, just look at the percentage the mechanics get. Most labor rates around here (middle Georgia) are well above 100 an hour, some 150 or more. Yet the mechanics top pay in this area is still well below 30 a flat rate hour. Also, it's always up to the mechanic to "take one for the team" to give the customer a little break. The mechanic is always looked at as a thief, because people just automatically think he's the one who sets prices, and that's as far from the truth as you can get. The sad fact at the dealerships now is, 90% or more of what they do is now warranty work. It was headed that way when I was still on the line. On top of all that, you have customers that don't give a chit about anything but getting it as cheap as they can. So the mechanic gets screwed in every orifice he has, plus a few more he doesn't.
 
Flat rate can pretty much screw you up here since everything here rusts. And if you are working on plow trucks, don't even try working on flat rate and throw book time out the window, because over here a ball joint job can take all day sometimes, for one side, lol.
 
Ant said:
Flat rate can pretty much screw you up here since everything here rusts. And if you are working on plow trucks, don't even try working on flat rate and throw book time out the window, because over here a ball joint job can take all day sometimes, for one side, lol.
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Yeah I've been there and done that even here. They don't take that into consideration here. You get what you get and that's usually screwed.
 

LOL...Yup, if it takes less than flat rate you get charged flat rate. If it takes more than flat rate, you pay by the hour.
 
RustyRatRod said:
In dealerships especially the mechanic always gets the short end of the stick. He gets screwed on warranty work. The same job on customer pay will pay 2.3 hours, but warranty will only allow .8. Also, just look at the percentage the mechanics get. Most labor rates around here (middle Georgia) are well above 100 an hour, some 150 or more. Yet the mechanics top pay in this area is still well below 30 a flat rate hour. Also, it's always up to the mechanic to "take one for the team" to give the customer a little break. The mechanic is always looked at as a thief, because people just automatically think he's the one who sets prices, and that's as far from the truth as you can get. The sad fact at the dealerships now is, 90% or more of what they do is now warranty work. It was headed that way when I was still on the line. On top of all that, you have customers that don't give a chit about anything but getting it as cheap as they can. So the mechanic gets screwed in every orifice he has, plus a few more he doesn't.
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Also, the dealerships can't raise their warranty labor rate unless they raise their door rate. The warranty rate is always dollars less than the door rate. Warranty labor rates go up and the labor time goes down. It's a vicious circle.
 
AAANND, The manufacturer watches the flag times compared to the physical times and will lower the warranty flat rate accordingly. Just became we figured out a shortcut.
 
I'm sure glad I can do most of my repairs myself. I figure that they charge you book hours which is almost always in excess of what it really takes. That wouldn't be so bad except labor rates are through the roof...over $180/hr up here in some cases and more at dealers. Now their effective labor rates are $250-$300/hr. Compound that with inflated parts prices prices.....you don't get a break when you go to a repair shop because they are buying from the local warehouses who are all charging top retail prices or worse....OEMs.
 
I still do almost all of my own work and will continue to do so until I am no longer physically capable because of the ridiculous costs of shop labor rates.
I was looking for work as a service writer/advisor about 10 years ago, but had no luck getting a job offer anywhere except a local Canadian Tire store, and the rate of pay offer was barely over minimum wage. When I went to a local dealership for an interview, it was made clear to me that the decades of experience I have were not the least bit important to them as they were more interested in hiring a sales person than someone who could give honest advice on what repairs were needed.
 
The best boss I ever had ran a small independent tire/alignment/AC shop. Knew him ever since I was a kid. He'd call me every now and then to see where I was working and if I was happy. One day he caught me just right. I loaded my box from the Toyotee dealer and took all my stuff over there. His office was all the way in the rear of the showroom. He told me "sit down and lets talk about money" as he reached in his bottom desk drawer and whooped out two Dixie cups and a fifth of Crown Royal and filled um both slam up. We sat back there and chewed the fat a good two hours. A full hour after his shop closed. He knew my family and everybody I went to church with. This was probably about 95. He didn't believe in flat rate. He paid a good wage. His philosophy was and I quote "I get the best of you in the summer and you get the best of me in the winter. He didn't mind, either. We could be playing tiddly winks in the shop and he didn't care. But when the work was there, he expected you to work. He was the most honest person I've ever known. I'll give you but one small example. On an AC service and repair, Most times the customer's car had refrigerant in it, even though it was inop or not cooling well. He always insisted when we evacuated the system, to record how much was in the system so we would only charge for the remainder to fill it back up. He said he couldn't stand how all the other local shops basically sold customer's refrigerant back to them. He was right, too. I miss Charley. He was a really good guy.
 
Over the years I have probably installed a dozen electric fuel pumps. Those came from awful zone or rockaweful.
I haven't been physically able to do that sort of thing for about 5 years now. Early 2024 my RAM wouldn't start. 65 USD got it towed to Minekee in Easley. I'm told by phone that the fuel pump died. I insisted the new pump sender assembly come from the Dodge store and I wanted to see the receipt regardless what discount they might have gotten.
My bill from them was 1034 USD. No doubt that I had saved a heck of a lot more coin than that over the years by robbing those businesses.
Even on fixed income I like nolonger taking grocery money from the young guns.
My neighbors and friends always smiled and said thank you. I do and did. After all, the young gun working there is my neighbor too.
 
RedFish said:
Over the years I have probably installed a dozen electric fuel pumps. Those came from awful zone or rockaweful.
I haven't been physically able to do that sort of thing for about 5 years now. Early 2024 my RAM wouldn't start. 65 USD got it towed to Minekee in Easley. I'm told by phone that the fuel pump died. I insisted the new pump sender assembly come from the Dodge store and I wanted to see the receipt regardless what discount they might have gotten.
My bill from them was 1034 USD. No doubt that I had saved a heck of a lot more coin than that over the years by robbing those businesses.
Even on fixed income I like nolonger taking grocery money from the young guns.
My neighbors and friends always smiled and said thank you. I do and did. After all, the young gun working there is my neighbor too.
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Insult to injury...telling them what the problem is and then getting charged for diagnosis. It happened at the Mazda dealer when my wife's car broke down and I was busy and she needed her car and I didn't know of another shop that could do it quick.
 
Here is a good one....I took my BMW 535D in because it was making an odd noise from the rear. I suggested that it sounded like the fuel pump. They checked it out and said maybe there was some mud on the tailpipe. I then sold the car because it was loosing coolant and again the dealer couldn't find a problem. A few months the new owner let me know that the fuel pump failed ruining the tank, fuel lines and injectors as metal had run through the system. It needed $12k in parts but fortunately had 1 month left on warranty. I sent an email to the Service Manager suggesting his techs take a basic troubleshooting course.
 
Here is the real kicker. How is that dealerships and independent repair facilities can charge whatever they want when dealing with insurance companies but if you put "collision repair" on your shingle, they tell you how much you can charge. It's called a "prevailing rate". Around here it's about 50 an hour less than a dealerships mechanical rate.
 
RedFish said:
My bill from them was 1034 USD. No
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Although it's pricy, from my experience of working on rusty trucks I can see a price like that due to the extra work and parts that are usually involved. A job like that sometimes requires two people for lifting, draining the tank as much as possible first, new tank straps, the extra effort of removing the old rusted tank straps and stinking like gas. It's a hassle and is why some people just cut a hole in the bed floor and then cover it, lol.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The best boss I ever had ran a small independent tire/alignment/AC shop. Knew him ever since I was a kid. He'd call me every now and then to see where I was working and if I was happy. One day he caught me just right. I loaded my box from the Toyotee dealer and took all my stuff over there. His office was all the way in the rear of the showroom. He told me "sit down and lets talk about money" as he reached in his bottom desk drawer and whooped out two Dixie cups and a fifth of Crown Royal and filled um both slam up. We sat back there and chewed the fat a good two hours. A full hour after his shop closed. He knew my family and everybody I went to church with. This was probably about 95. He didn't believe in flat rate. He paid a good wage. His philosophy was and I quote "I get the best of you in the summer and you get the best of me in the winter. He didn't mind, either. We could be playing tiddly winks in the shop and he didn't care. But when the work was there, he expected you to work. He was the most honest person I've ever known. I'll give you but one small example. On an AC service and repair, Most times the customer's car had refrigerant in it, even though it was inop or not cooling well. He always insisted when we evacuated the system, to record how much was in the system so we would only charge for the remainder to fill it back up. He said he couldn't stand how all the other local shops basically sold customer's refrigerant back to them. He was right, too. I miss Charley. He was a really good guy.
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Charley sounds like a truly honest man and a great person to call "boss". Sadly there are very few of them left.
When I worked in an independent shop the owner was a good friend of mine, and I had known him for a few years by then, my closest friend was his brother in law. He was pretty good to work for, most of the time. There were very few days that were not busy, and there was always cold beer in the fridge for Friday afternoon, plus he would always allow me to use the shop in the evenings and weekends to work on my own car, plus the tow truck if I needed it.
 
I quit the Dealership I worked at 4yrs. ago, end of this past July, ain't missin' it one bit.....
Neighbor's Son just told Me He got His ('12 ?) RAV4 4-wheel aligned, $240, .....as techs we got paid 1.5hrs....pretty sure that's a toe & go front & rear.
 
Pretty sure I just got screwed by an independent. I consider the owner a friend. The tech did the screwing. Trans fluid change on a 2014 rav4. Stand tube and all that happy horse ****. I can see where the access plug to the stand tube was not disturbed. I hear stories where people pay for timing belt change and break not much later. *** holes.
 
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Bodyperson said:
Pretty sure I just got screwed by an independent. I consider the owner a friend. The tech did the screwing. Trans fluid change on a 2014 rav4. Stand tube and all that happy horse ****. I can see where the access plug to the stand tube was not disturbed. I here stories where people pay for timing belt change and break not much later. *** holes.
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More than a few of those scam artists out there. My wife always took her car to the dealership before I met her, first time I got it on a hoist I was absolutely shocked by the severe rust that I found. The car had less than 60k miles on it, but the rockers were virtually nonexistent and the floors were not far behind. It looked like someone had put a hoist through the right side rocker panel and patched it with body filler. She had never once been told anything about the condition that the car was in, yet she had receipts for thousands of dollars for repairs. She was devastated when I told her how bad it was, the car had belonged to her parents and she was very attached to it, but didn't have the money to repair the rust, nor did she know anyone she could trust to do the work.
I called my body and paint guy, and he did it for me at a very reasonable price. We drove that car for another 7 years before she sold it to a friend.
 
missing linc said:
More than a few of those scam artists out there. My wife always took her car to the dealership before I met her, first time I got it on a hoist I was absolutely shocked by the severe rust that I found. The car had less than 60k miles on it, but the rockers were virtually nonexistent and the floors were not far behind. It looked like someone had put a hoist through the right side rocker panel and patched it with body filler. She had never once been told anything about the condition that the car was in, yet she had receipts for thousands of dollars for repairs. She was devastated when I told her how bad it was, the car had belonged to her parents and she was very attached to it, but didn't have the money to repair the rust, nor did she know anyone she could trust to do the work.
I called my body and paint guy, and he did it for me at a very reasonable price. We drove that car for another 7 years before she sold it to a friend.
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Rust is real bad here and shops need to be honest with customers about it. Back when I worked at a repair shop, we had a customer with a Dodge Aries that was slowly turning into dust. It got so bad that we eventually ran out of solid places under the car to lift it up, and the floor was pretty much just the carpet, which meant a few good bumps in the road would probably make the driver's seat fall through. We were honest with the customer, showed the the issues and told them that it was time to retire the old rusty Aries. They understood and retired the old K car. Some places are not honest and just keep milking the customer with overpriced band-aids on their forever broken turd of a car, it's definitely greed and it's dangerous.

Also, RIP(Rust In Peace) Dodge Aries K, lol.
 
Rust can pop up and get you even when you least expect it. My wife's car is a 2006 Saturn Vue AWD with a Honda 3.5 V6. We bought it new and she absolutely loves the thing. It looks maybe 2 years old instead of almost 20! I chased a vibration in the front end until I was about to pull what hair I have left out! Long story short, it was the mounts spot welded to the frame rails where the sub frame bolts to. The 2 front mounts had rusted away from the frame rails and the sub frame was moving and changing the front alignment and the angle of the axles when you hammered on it taking off. I made new mounts and welded them back to the frame rails and it drives/runs like new again. Chevy Equinox and the like body GM SUV's all have that problem. If one comes in, look up under it to see if those mounts are rusty before you even put it up on a lift. Ours broke every motor mount on it because of that, which is what I found and fixed first.
 
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