AJ's Quest for the Funnest Street 360-4spd Combo;short version

[AJ/FormS]

Story time!
Every once in a while,I see a guy struggling with selecting a cam for his 360 streeter. So I thought I would share my experience. Take from it what you will.
Part 1, the combo
I have a 68 Barracuda,outfitted to be an S clone. The engine is just a basic zero deck,4.04 short block with KB107s, OOTB Eddies, an AG, and a Holley 750DP. Basic stuff.Since 1999,it has piled up over 100,000 miles(most before 2012), and has seen 3 cams. I run 1.6 roller tip arms, and the pushrod lengths were adjusted for each cam.
Additionally I run an A833,and an 8.75, TTIs with dual 3inch pipes
Part 2, the cams
The first one came from Mopar; a 292/508/108; called 249@050They say
The second from Hughes Engines; 270/280/110; called 223@050
The third one, also from Hughes; 276/286/110; called 230@050
Hughes cams, as to advertised durations, are not measured the same as Mopes. I believe Hughes are measured at .008 lift whereas Mopes are at .006. This means Hughes are relatively bigger than they say as compared to Mopes. Translated means; a 270 could be 272 or 273 or who knows what, when measured at .006 -NOT FAIR but that's the way it is.They call 'em fast rates,cuz they are fast. But they have a .002 headstart. Be that as it may, within the family it's all relative, and back in 2000 when I read the hype, I was hooked, and they WERE the fastest out there.I was very happy with the Hughes.And most especially with Dave.
Here's what I can tell you about these cams;

 

[AJ/FormS]

Part 3, the 292*
With this cam, I ran the .020 headgaskets. Most of the pistons were running from plus .001 to .001 in the hole, so Squish was .019 to .021; pretty tight.The Scr calculated out to 11.0 I was gung-ho for compression, and willing to run meth-injection if it came to that.
This cam made plenty of power........at plenty of rpm.But below around 3600, I thought it was a bit sluggish. I moved the cam this way and that way, but in the end it was back in at 104*.So to combat the soft-start, I went to 3.91s. .....and then 4.88s........ and then 4.30s; which gave me a 11.44 starter-gear. Which I found acceptable. I finally caved-in and called it a bad street choice; and when the opportunity came up to sell it, I jumped.
So what did I learn?
Well firstly;4.30s suck on the street, and;4.30s suck worse on the hiway.
Secondly, the power didn't hit until after 4500, so up to 32mph, basically, I was slooow. This also sucked.
And thirdly,the powerband was from about 4800 to 6800. Great for a dragcar; not so much for a streeter.
Conclusion
For me, the 292 was just plain too big.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Part 4,the 223*
During these early years I was in the habit of swapping out the 367 every Sept long-weekend for my winter combo; a teener/904. Teener/904 was soooo much winter fun. When the May long-weekend rolled around, the 367 would go back in. Sometimes it went in earlier.
So during the winter I would split the 360 and see what's happening.Well when the heads came off, It was easy to see that those .020 gaskets were about done. Well at the initial install, I had tried to run a 71 TQ set-up, but was unable to seal up the intake gaskets. After measuring it up I had concluded that my intake was warped and ordered up the AG, which solved the problem. So now it was time to dig a lil deeper. What I found was that my precious 71 block had been very poorly machined, with the decks running off in all kinds of directions. So I decided to kill 3 birds with one stone. I would get the decks straightened out, and get some positive deck height on my pistons, and I would lower my Scr by using the FelPro .039s. Shazzam! Another paycheck, and things were looking good, with straight decks,and the pistons now 3 to 5 thou up,Squish came in at .035 and the new Scr came in at 10.72(IIRC).
Ok moving along.
This new 223* cam was heaven.Gobs of torque, right off idle.Torque everywhere. I was so excited! Until I hit 3rd gear.Gone was the top-end rush. I had expected some powerloss, but this was not right, was it? I had really misjudged how dramatic this would be, and even more, how dismayed I was about it.
Well after a lil head-scratching, I came up with an idea.All I had to do was get that little engine on the pipe and keep it there, kind of like a snowmobile.So I traded away my T/A tranny with the 2.47 gearset, for and O/D box, and ordered up a GearVendor. I would drop my Tranny splits from 72% to 78/80%, and get a double O/D in the process.Brilliant I thought.I really wanted to keep that 223 for its tremendous low rpm torque and also, it was getting Super gas mileage when I installed an old 600Vsecondary I had kicking around.
So enter the 833 O/D-GVod combo
The Ratios were; 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78-.55 This being 7 useable ratios! (GV in red).
Brilliant I thought.Splits were .78-.69-.78-.77-.78-.71. Shifting at 6000, most of the drop-ins were about 4700, almost perfect for a powerpeak around 5200. The powerband requirement was now 1300 rpm; down from 1740. And I could run any rear gear that my heart desired.
The next few weeks were a lot of fun. I still had the 4.30s back there, so the starter gear was now 4.30 x 3.09 =13.29, and with electric shift into 1-O/D, you better believe this was fun.It was two,really loud,really long,really black,stripes, all the way to 47 mph,54 if I stayed in til 7000. And then I backshifted the GV and pulled the stick into 2nd ,whoeeeee.
Well it didn't take long for the novelty of that 13.29 starter-gear to wear off.I found that this new cam easily pulled first-od (10.29), so out came the 4.30s and back in went the 3.55s for a starter-gear of 10.97.Very nice.
Fast forward to the next summer.
As time went by, split shifting every gear became less and less entertaining, but the splits in the regular box were just too wide. Plus I kept blowing these O/D boxes up!
About that time, the little 223 that could, couldn't anymore. It dropped 2 lobes right after an oil-change. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Then I learned about the oil companies taking out the ZDDP.
So enter cam #3.
But first, what had I learned?
I learned that the 223*was a gangbusters hard-pulling,street cam. But for me the lack of top-end rush was sorely missed. I also learned that to get the most out of it,she needed a tranny with really tight splits, to put down some great average power down through each gear.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Part 5, the 230*
By this time,I had amassed quite a collection of also-ran chunks and trannys, not to mention the pile of busted stuff.
I knew that getting a starter-gear was easy, my splits were around 78%, and I had double O/D. So no worries. I could run any cam, I thought.
So I called up Hughes, and told him about those 2 lobes, laying in the pan. He clued me in to the ZDDP switch-out.
By this time I knew what I didn't want; 249* was too big.And 223* was too small.So what runs up the middle? 236. Dave is steering me towards his 238, and Ima thinking 228. What's in the middle?233.I buy his 230*. So that's how the 230* came to be.
This cam is a sweetheart! It seems to have the power of the 292, but without the soft-start. And a teensy bit less torque off idle, than the 223.I'm not sure where the peaks are, but I know it pulls hard everywhere and even by 7000 it doesn't seem to be slowing down much.
Well, I soon learned, again,that the gears I was using were not gonna keep me happy. If you recall, I was running the 3.55s, the O/D box and the GV.
I knew the starter was right at 10.97. And I wanted to keep the GV. But the 230* cam had made the 78% splits unnecessary, so the O/D box would have to go. Besides I blew another one up!
So I called up Passon Performance to see if he had an early-A, 3.09 set. He did, and so on the way was that set and also one of his aluminum boxes with an aluminum side cover;momoney.
So after I get it,(nice gears Jamie),as I had the previous times, I slick shifted the second and third gears, then slammed it all together with my specially prepared synchronizers.
The ratios are; 3.09-----1.92-----1.40-----1.00
Spliting options...,..2.41-----1.30-----1.09-----.78 GV in red
So now I have 8 useable ratios, but I no longer have to split any of them.I mostly drive it as a 4 + 1
So street-shifting with 3.55s is; 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od, Sometimes I split 1-2 if I'm in a show-off mood.
For the 1/8th I put the 4.30s back in and shift;3.09-2.41-1.92-1.30, to trap at 93mph at 6460rpm. Going home O/D will be 3.35 ratio, so 60 =2500
For the qtr(never been), I would leave the 3.55s,and shift 3.09-2.41-1.92-1.30 to hopefully trap around 112@6460 going home will be 2.77ratio, so 60=2064

So what have I learned?
I learned that with the 230* cam, lotsa gears is lotsa options for lotsa fun. I learned that the 230* pulls hard everywhere. That it needs a starter gear in the 10 to 11 range, and that it cruises real fine with a final drive ratio of 2.77. It's also tolerant of the wide 1-2 split (62%).And accepts all the regular splits.
Conclusion;The 230* is staying

 

[AJ/FormS]

Part 6,conclusion
This story illustrates the importance of matching the engine to the chassis,With consideration given to powerband and intended useage.
No gears don't rule.There is no substitute for raw power after about 80 mph.But when the big engine is saddled with bad gears or a wide powerband requirement,your little fella, running on the nose of the power curve, will put up a heck of a fight. At least until wind-resistanc hits.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Part 7, Parting shots
My next HC 360;
I will do as little decking and or machining on the block as possible; decking leads to milling, leads to china wall fitment.Things can and do go wrong, and then there is fitment issues. The point is the less the machining, the better. Instead of all that machining to get the pistons to fit, I will get pistons to fit my block. If that means custom, so be it. KB sells some pop-ups that can be cut down to whatever.They might be an option.
Next time, I'm going with iron heads to see what all the hullabaloo is with hi Dcrs.
And I think I might give that Spreadbore another shot.
The 3.09/direct 4th box, with the GV is staying, no matter what, unless a 5speeder shows up on my doorstep, with similar splits.With these new gears, I would be willing to go back a bit in cam-size.Ima thinking 225 to 228*. I would also be willing to try those dusty 3.23s in the back corner, again.I might try another 108LDA cam............ The Quest just never ends

 

[AJ/FormS]

So I was thinking; Maybe I'll go back to the 223* and just turbo it..

Comments welcome
please