Alignment

[daves66valiant]

Poorman’s alignment. First timer but everything passes the eyeball test. I’m sure it’s not perfect but it’ll get me down the road until I get it onto a proper alignment rack. Have researched some DIY tools but haven’t pulled the trigger.

Set my ride height. Did the string line around all fours. Then devised a straight edge on the rim with magnets. Used an manual angle finder but forgot I had my digital angle finder that I use for my table saw. From the looks of it I have the camber at -2* on the drivers side. Got -1.4* on the passenger side. These setting are with the cam bolts maxed just to see how much negative camber I could get. I have not figured out the Caster but will get the camber set to -.5 to .75 when I get a chance. I eyeballed the toe in at 1/8”. I’m looking forward the seeing how close or how far the actual numbers are on the rack.

On the sway bar the QA1 strut rods are a little thick. I believe I need to extend the end-link sleeves by 1/2-1” to clear the sway bar end. Opinions on this please. Sleeves aren’t straight up and down either and I’m not sure if I can do much about it either because of the L- brackets supplied by Hellwig.

 

[daves66valiant]

Comments on this tool

Longacre Caster Camber Gauges 78260

 

[nm9stheham]

I like your camber gauge, and glad you switched angle gauges... the ones like you first showed are notorious for repeatability.

• Did you perchance rotate the wheel 60-90 degrees and repeat the camber check to see if the wheel was true?
• I assume your car has the not-uncommon wider track width up front versus at the rear. Did you do something with the strings to accommodate that track difference?
• Did you find the 'center-of-steering' in the steering box first? It has nothing to do with alignment but a lot with how tight the steering will be when going straight ahead.
• How do you like your lift?

 

[daves66valiant]

-Yes the brand new Borgeson box had a procedure for finding center. I believe it’s pretty close.

-Did not account for any difference between front and rear widths.

-I didn’t lock anything down as far as the cam bolts etc. I still want to practice and get repeatability.

-I didn’t get far enough to place turning plates

- The lift is awesome. Especially with the hydraulic rolling scissor lift

 

[nm9stheham]

-Did not account for any difference between front and rear widths.

Ok look at your strings at the back tires.... if the string is a bit off of the back tire at the front edge, then it is not a straight line parallel to the car's centerline. It is angled out a bit towards the front. To set tow, I use a bar with a fixed 'tab' about 12-15" long on one end and a moveable tab at the other end, both of which stock out of the bar at 90 degrees. Set it in back, then move to the front, to get a differential measurement of toe.

Keep an eye on the tires; they some times have low or slightly recessed spots in the sidewalls that effect this.

Very nice on the lift!

 

[brian6pac]

Just remember the front cam moves camber a lot and caster a little,
the rear cam moves caster a lot and camber a little.

 

[daves66valiant]

Just remember the front cam moves camber a lot and caster a little,
the rear cam moves caster a lot and camber a little.

Thanks. I started with the rear cams all the way into the frame and the front cams all the way out. I’ll get to play with things tomorrow. I did notice how quickly the tire moved towards negative camber with the front cams.

 

[adriver]

Fastrax review and alignment questions for the pros.

 

[72bluNblu]

Those Hellwig brackets are NOT supposed to be bolted to the shock mount. You’re supposed to drill a hole in the LCA to locate them properly.

 

[daves66valiant]

Those Hellwig brackets are NOT supposed to be bolted to the shock mount. You’re supposed to drill a hole in the LCA to locate them properly.

Here are the instructions

https://www.hellwigproducts.com/instructions/5906.pdf

 

[daves66valiant]

I need to get the sway bar right. Bar Should be level at ride height if at all possible right?

 

[72bluNblu]

Here are the instructions

https://www.hellwigproducts.com/instructions/5906.pdf

View attachment 1715329153

Huh. My mistake. On the 73+ sway bars you drill the LCA. I don’t see how that location will work with the strut rod location.

I need to get the sway bar right. Bar Should be level at ride height if at all possible right?

Correct. The sway bar ends should be level at ride height, and the end links should be vertical.

 

[daves66valiant]

Huh. My mistake. On the 73+ sway bars you drill the LCA. I don’t see how that location will work with the strut rod location.



Correct. The sway bar ends should be level at ride height, and the end links should be vertical.

Once I get a better look at it I’ll see if longer end links will help even it out and clear the aftermarket strut rods.

Of course this sway bar kit says it can be used with the stock sway bar tabs or used with the L-brackets. I’m going to bet I’ll not get it perfect because of this being a dual option sway bar.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I don't think longer links will help. If you look at Helwig's deestruckshuns, that link is real close to the stock strut rod. Yours is oversized. As it is now, how is the bar in relation to the ground? How close is it to parallel with the ground?

 

[daves66valiant]

I don't think longer links will help. If you look at Helwig's deestruckshuns, that link is real close to the stock strut rod. Yours is oversized. As it is now, how is the bar in relation to the ground? How close is it to parallel with the ground?

Bar needs to come down about an inch to be level with the ground. With the sleeve .5-1in longer should help clear the strut rod. If not I may need to call Hellwig and get a recommendation. Maybe other have had problems and they developed a new L bracket or something.

 

[70Duster440]

Not to hijack but I have a 5906 on my Duster with the shock mounts. I also have aftermarket strut rods (Reilly). I was just messing with the end links last night. Photo #5 in their instructions shows the link pretty vertical but in reality, I don't think there's a way to get it there. Because of the bar width and shock mount location, the links will always lean in. Rotating the shock mount brackets will affect that to some degree.

On mine, the links would have to be quite a bit longer for the bar to be level with ground.

With the bar centered, a lower link washer is close to each strut rod - 3/16-1/4" clearance maybe. If the links were longer there would be plenty of clearance there.

 

[72bluNblu]

That bar is made to work with the stock sway bar mounts. Putting the brackets on the shock bolt moves them up and inboard, so the end links can’t be straight and they get close to the strut rods.

The solution is to put the mounts closer to or in the stock location. But that will likely require a welder.

 

[70Duster440]

That bar is made to work with the stock sway bar mounts. Putting the brackets on the shock bolt moves them up and inboard, so the end links can’t be straight and they get close to the strut rods.

The solution is to put the mounts closer to or in the stock location. But that will likely require a welder.

Yes, it's apparent that would be the better solution. This is a compromise on their part. Funny thing is a Hellwig tech sent me an email a short time ago suggesting a 55914 might be a better choice (for 63-66???). It mounts to the front of the K rather than underside which might help the level but the links would still be angled in to reach the shock mount.

https://www.hellwigproducts.com/instructions/55914.pdf

 

[daves66valiant]

Not to hijack but I have a 5906 on my Duster with the shock mounts. I also have aftermarket strut rods (Reilly). I was just messing with the end links last night. Photo #5 in their instructions shows the link pretty vertical but in reality, I don't think there's a way to get it there. Because of the bar width and shock mount location, the links will always lean in. Rotating the shock mount brackets will affect that to some degree.

On mine, the links would have to be quite a bit longer for the bar to be level with ground.

With the bar centered, a lower link washer is close to each strut rod - 3/16-1/4" clearance maybe. If the links were longer there would be plenty of clearance there.

This is about as close as you can get without getting a longer end sleeve setup. I used 1/2” spacers. That’s the max because you won’t be able to thread the top locknut. I had to clamp everything to start the locknut threads. As long as there’s no binding I’m good with the numbers I got.

 

[nm9stheham]

The reality is that the links do not have to be any more vertical than they are. They transmit the torque loads quite well at an 8-9* angle; the anti-sway force at the ends with the link angle shown is 98.7% of the force if the link is perfectly vertical. As long as the total angle from vertical stays at 13-14 degrees or less, the anti-sway force will say at 97% or higher of maximum possible force. This is not a Formula 1 car.

As mounted, as the suspension bumps up, the link is going to angle a bit more from vertical and angle back a bit. As the suspension droops, the link is going to angle out a bit and angle back a bit. The links are angling around all the time as the suspension moves. So keeping the link as long as they are is necessary to keep the link angles from becoming too severe. So I also don't see how this can be changed with this bar location on the K member, as noted above.

I'd just look for any binding of the links to the strut rod as the suspension (as the OP has found), and if OK, then run with it. The rubbing of that washer to the strut rod could be a wear item, so I think you are right to be concerned and work to solve that particular item. Changing rubber biscuit thickness and spacer length or adding washers could do the trick.

 

[daves66valiant]

Went ahead and ordered the Longacre toe plates and magnetic caster/camber tool. Should be here Friday and can hopefully dial things in

 

[daves66valiant]

For this old dinosaur this will be a huge improvement in handling. No more hooptie land whale dives etc

 

[72bluNblu]

This is about as close as you can get without getting a longer end sleeve setup. I used 1/2” spacers. That’s the max because you won’t be able to thread the top locknut. I had to clamp everything to start the locknut threads. As long as there’s no binding I’m good with the numbers I got.
View attachment 1715329505 View attachment 1715329506

That’s still too tight on the strut rod IMHO. The angle isn’t bad, that’s really not that concerning. I mean sure, ideally they’d be vertical and the bar would be horizontal to the ground. But that’s not a big deal.

The clearance to the strut rod is a big deal though. I wouldn’t run it like that. Maybe that’s just me, but I’d want significantly more clearance than what you’ve got. Find a welder, weld those brackets in the factory location. You’ll gain clearance, improve the angle on the end links, and probably be able to shorten the end links and level the bar too.

 

[daves66valiant]

That’s still too tight on the strut rod IMHO. The angle isn’t bad, that’s really not that concerning. I mean sure, ideally they’d be vertical and the bar would be horizontal to the ground. But that’s not a big deal.

The clearance to the strut rod is a big deal though. I wouldn’t run it like that. Maybe that’s just me, but I’d want significantly more clearance than what you’ve got. Find a welder, weld those brackets in the factory location. You’ll gain clearance, improve the angle on the end links, and probably be able to shorten the end links and level the bar too.

Glad you chimed in. Thanks. I know you do a lot of the pro touring type stuff. It is concerning it’s that close to the strut rod. I wish they still made the factory style tabs you could weld on yourself. I would have done that when everything was apart. Unfortunately, relying on an aftermarket sway bar solution was a risk. I have a welder and could do it my self but am wondering what Hellwig will have to say if I call them.

I’m wondering if this is why Hotchkis supplies you with welding tabs for their sway bar kit.???

 

[daves66valiant]

Yes, it's apparent that would be the better solution. This is a compromise on their part. Funny thing is a Hellwig tech sent me an email a short time ago suggesting a 55914 might be a better choice (for 63-66???). It mounts to the front of the K rather than underside which might help the level but the links would still be angled in to reach the shock mount.

https://www.hellwigproducts.com/instructions/55914.pdf

Even for the 63-66 the sleeve is really close to the strut rod. Picture from Hellwig instructions.