Alignment

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Glad you chimed in. Thanks. I know you do a lot of the pro touring type stuff. It is concerning it’s that close to the strut rod. I wish they still made the factory style tabs you could weld on yourself. I would have done that when everything was apart. Unfortunately, relying on an aftermarket sway bar solution was a risk. I have a welder and could do it my self but am wondering what Hellwig will have to say if I call them.

I’m wondering if this is why Hotchkis supplies you with welding tabs for their sway bar kit.???

Hellwig will likely tell you to put the tabs were the instructions tell you to put them and make sure you have enough clearance. Which as you're finding out may be conflicting advice on your car. But they probably won't tell you to weld the tabs on near the factory location, just because that's not what they designed the tabs to do. Even though realistically that's probably the best option.

Hotchkis supplies you with tabs to weld onto your LCA's because their bar doesn't use the factory sway bar tab location on the 67-72 cars. The tab location for the Hotchkis bar is basically the same as the '73+ location. And actually, the Hellwig "pro touring" bar for the 67-72 cars is similar, it runs the '73+ location and improves tire clearance compared to the 67-72 factory location.

I would suggest doing what's right for your car. Meaning, take the mounts and end links off, level the sway bar, and determine the best spot for the mounts while considering strut rod clearance and trying to keep the end links somewhat vertical and as short as possible. The Hellwig mounts can be welded on, although they are pretty thick compared to the LCA metal so make sure you take that into consideration. Or buy a set of tabs from BergmanAutocraft, he sells them for like $40. They also look a little more like factory tabs, if that's something you're concerned about.

Bergman Auto Craft - Home of the Modern Muscle Car
 
I’ve got one $7 option I’m going to try from Amazon. It’s a Moog sway bar link for a Nissan truck but it’s specs should work. It doesn’t have the thick sleeves. If it doesn’t work it’s easy to return. I’ll report back once it shows up.

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Moog K90104 Stabilizer Bar Link Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C5610Q/?tag=joeychgo-20
 
Once the different links are tried, any way to move the bar mounts in the K frame forward a bit? That would help with the clearance a bit more.
 
Nice tools from Longacre.

-0.75 camber/ +3.25 caster drivers
-0.75 camber/ +3.75 caster passenger
1/16” toe in

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Well the take a chance Moog sway bar links (made for a Nissan truck) showed up today and it’s a good fit. I did reuse the rubber bushings that came from Hellwig. Plenty of clearance. It not perfect as far as the links being vertical and the bar being parallel to the ground but it will work. Hellwig should take notice. There are a lot of customers that are using bigger adjustable strut rods from PST, QA1, Firm Feel etc.

Before and After

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This thread has caught my attention. With that swaybar kit can you use that 73+ lca without the swaybar tabs? I clicked the link and says 67-72. I'm not sure what is different between the two. I thought it was just the ball joints and centerlink?
 
This thread has caught my attention. With that swaybar kit can you use that 73+ lca without the swaybar tabs? I clicked the link and says 67-72. I'm not sure what is different between the two. I thought it was just the ball joints and centerlink?
73+ K frames and sway bar mounts are different. LCA doesn’t matter. Can be with or without tabs.
 
Well the take a chance Moog sway bar links (made for a Nissan truck) showed up today and it’s a good fit. I did reuse the rubber bushings that came from Hellwig. Plenty of clearance. It not perfect as far as the links being vertical and the bar being parallel to the ground but it will work. Hellwig should take notice. There are a lot of customers that are using bigger adjustable strut rods from PST, QA1, Firm Feel etc.
Nice work. Thanks for the before and after pix. Now you need to get some dust and dirt on that suspension!
 
Does hellwig make a kit for the 73up cars? I like that kit! Save me a bunch on trying to buy lca with tabs

Yes they make a 73-76.

I helped them with fitment for that sway bar. Took 3 bars to get the clearance just right. It’s a tight fit since thise sway bars thread through the K-member. And the upgrade sway bar is so much thicker.
 
Many Mopar factory end links where this way originally.

That’s what I remembered. It took a awhile searching in the google interwebs to find something that could work.
Very nice.

Did you try even more caster or did the camber or caster limit this?

When I set my camber I had the front cam all the way out to start and back cam all the way inboard. That gave me -1.5 camber. I dialed the back cam bolt out to bring my camber to -0.75. Then I did my caster sweep just to see where I was at. The QA1 arms have a couple degrees built in iirc. The numbers came back +3.25/3.75. I was pretty happy with those numbers and haven’t futz with it. I did take a quick drive around the block but haven’t rechecked for suspension settlement. Eyeball test looks good though. Tracks really nice but didn’t get into any heavy testing yet. Mushy brakes I gotta fix.

I can drop the camber some and get more caster possibly but I’m not aware of the benefits of more caster than what I have now. What’s the added benefit of more caster for a street car?
 
More positive caster will increase tire grip and also increases steering wheel effort.
Small amount of negative caster will reduce the effort to the steering wheel, but will cause the car to wonder....cars rarely utilize negative caster.
 
That’s what I remembered. It took a awhile searching in the google interwebs to find something that could work.


When I set my camber I had the front cam all the way out to start and back cam all the way inboard. That gave me -1.5 camber. I dialed the back cam bolt out to bring my camber to -0.75. Then I did my caster sweep just to see where I was at. The QA1 arms have a couple degrees built in iirc. The numbers came back +3.25/3.75. I was pretty happy with those numbers and haven’t futz with it. I did take a quick drive around the block but haven’t rechecked for suspension settlement. Eyeball test looks good though. Tracks really nice but didn’t get into any heavy testing yet. Mushy brakes I gotta fix.

I can drop the camber some and get more caster possibly but I’m not aware of the benefits of more caster than what I have now. What’s the added benefit of more caster for a street car?

I think you are fine. You maxed out with the given constraints. 3.75 pos caster is good.

IF you wanted more caster... I would do what Hotchkis showed me. They setup the adjustable strut rod length for added caster adjustment...

The outer end of lower control arm with bushing/poly has some play fore and aft. The strut rod’s job is to stabilize it. If you adjust that play so the LCA is most forward, you’ll gain additional positive caster adjustment range.

Get the T-bars unwound and shocks off. That will make the suspension loose. Then shorten the strut rod adjustment so it’s got 1/2” or so loose play back and forth.

Then grab the spindle/disk and move it up and down from ride height. While pushing it snugly forward. Then lengthen the strut rod until it’s not loose. All the while keeping the LCA it’s snug forward position. That’s the strut rod length setting. Last you lock down and tighten up the strut rod.

Also, you can just shorten up the strut rods 1/4” and see if there positive caster gain. Thing is, you don’t want to tweak or crush the LCA bushing/poly or bind the LCA by going crazy shortening the strut rod.
 
I can drop the camber some and get more caster possibly but I’m not aware of the benefits of more caster than what I have now. What’s the added benefit of more caster for a street car?
More positive wheel centering force from the car itself, stronger feedback at the wheel, and more straight line stability, at the cost of higher steering force from the driver. These older cars were set with very little caster to make them steerable & maneuverable at low speeds and in parking lots, particularly when driven by the ladies, back before power steering was common. You presently have a lot more caster than stock, so I would try it as-is for now and see if you like it.
 
Just remember the front cam moves camber a lot and caster a little,
the rear cam moves caster a lot and camber a little.
Dang, good to know. I'm just doing my alignment now and am having a hard time getting negative camber, but have been messing with the rear cam more...now I know.
 
Poorman’s alignment. First timer but everything passes the eyeball test. I’m sure it’s not perfect but it’ll get me down the road until I get it onto a proper alignment rack. Have researched some DIY tools but haven’t pulled the trigger.

Set my ride height. Did the string line around all fours. Then devised a straight edge on the rim with magnets. Used an manual angle finder but forgot I had my digital angle finder that I use for my table saw. From the looks of it I have the camber at -2* on the drivers side. Got -1.4* on the passenger side. These setting are with the cam bolts maxed just to see how much negative camber I could get. I have not figured out the Caster but will get the camber set to -.5 to .75 when I get a chance. I eyeballed the toe in at 1/8”. I’m looking forward the seeing how close or how far the actual numbers are on the rack.
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On the sway bar the QA1 strut rods are a little thick. I believe I need to extend the end-link sleeves by 1/2-1” to clear the sway bar end. Opinions on this please. Sleeves aren’t straight up and down either and I’m not sure if I can do much about it either because of the L- brackets supplied by Hellwig.
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Are you sure those end link brackets aren't upside down?
You should weld them in place at the very least. The flex of the bolted on brackets is hurting the effectiveness of the bar.
 
Well the take a chance Moog sway bar links (made for a Nissan truck) showed up today and it’s a good fit. I did reuse the rubber bushings that came from Hellwig. Plenty of clearance. It not perfect as far as the links being vertical and the bar being parallel to the ground but it will work. Hellwig should take notice. There are a lot of customers that are using bigger adjustable strut rods from PST, QA1, Firm Feel etc.

Before and After

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What PN did you use. I may have a similar interference issue.
 
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