altercation vs hemi denny

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0ld school

0ld school

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I am ready to pull the trigger on a front end for my 68 cuda. trying to decide which would be best for me. I am looking for a power steering set up. street car.

questions:

which is lighter
how long will it take to get
which gives the most room

I thought I saw that the hemi denny has the stock width and the altercation is much wider. can the altercation be made with stock width? I plan on using `15" wheels. is one set up better for this? any advice would be appreciated...
 
both are about the same weight. I'd prolly expect about a week or 2 from each supplier...both systems have amazing build quality.. both companies have an amazing A+ reputation for providing the mopar community with a terrific suspension system with zero failure rates...and RMS or HDK will work with the customer to build something custom if need be...its a toss up..

i have one of the original RMS AlterKations, before Mr Reilly did updated a few things. i think the wider track width was more or less having to do with the wilwood brake kits...but it wasnt much, 3/8 of an inch? i dont remember...

either way, you cant go wrong with any one of them...
 
X2....

but there may be more to consider than an adjustable, narrower track width.

a) tie rods vs heim ends allows for greater suspension travel and removes what proponents claim is a harsher
steering feel associated with the heim end.

b) multiple motor combinations with one K leaving future power-plant options open

c) integrated compression bump stops and adjustable rebound bump stops

HDK has sold components to narrow the track width and add the longer coil over shock /spring for other brands.

Hope you do not mind me chiming in.....I just want you to have as much info as possible to make your decision.

Denny
 
Heim joint do not harshen the ride. I had them with the factory setup and with the alterk

I haven't heard anything bad about either setup.

I chose the alterK and am 100% happy with it. The car drives like a new car and even though I have big/skinnies with wrinkle walls it still handles decent now.
 
Back spacing is something to consider with the AlterK since the track width is greater and is closer to 5/8".

Had my AlterK for 5 years now and have nothing to complain about. No harsh ride with heim joints either.

HD looks similar and is built with the same kind of quality from what I see.

Flip a coin.
 
roccodart440 said:
Heim joint do not harshen the ride.
Click to expand...
Since I don't own either setup (yet) I can state without prejudice that after years of being around
sprint cars with open heim joints that I believe as time goes by, the grit they are contaminated with
will manifest itself with roughness and accelerated wear. Not a concern on a drag car or very limited
use hobby car; at least when they are relatively new.

Long term all-weather street use may be another kettle of fish entirely. There is also a very limited
(albeit possibly adequate) range of movement with a heim joint compared an automotive tie-rod end.

Whichever of these capable suspensions I choose, it will have heavy duty sealed and booted greaseable
automotive style tie rod ends, even if that means having to add them after the purchase.

WPART12_zps7fe1e09d.jpg

Photo courtesy of FABO thread HDK Tips and Updates
 
Why don't you call Bill and see what the longevity on these joints is in street use?

I had 10,000 miles on mine and they were like new when I sold them.

There are also greasable heim joints.
 
Why not call both guys and see what you are most comfortable with.

For me its all alter-k-tion.
 
I have talked to both before - no complaints. You never know, I might be happy with an RMS with a tie rod
end change.

Seems like you guys are trying to talk me into using heim joints. Funny, I'm not trying to talk you into using
the automotive ends, jusy saying that it would be my choice and my preference.

Use what you want and you'll get no argument from me.
 
Spun Bearing said:
I might be happy with an RMS with a tie rod
end change.

Seems like you guys are trying to talk me into using heim joints..
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to talk you into it, just wanted you to see that there isn't an issue with the heims.

If I were to try to talk you into something it would be the alterK in general.
 
Getting back to the topic ....no one has mentioned there's about $1000.00 difference between RMS and HDK (HDK is less expensive), not to mention HDK will build you a Custom K your specific needs.
 
Spun Bearing said:
Whichever of these capable suspensions I choose, it will have heavy duty sealed and booted greaseable
automotive style tie rod ends, even if that means having to add them after the purchase.

WPART12_zps7fe1e09d.jpg

Photo courtesy of FABO thread HDK Tips and Updates
Click to expand...

You will not be able to add them to an Alter K because of the way it's designed. It's set up to use a long through bolt for the heim. It's not a tapered design.
 
younggun2.0 said:
what is the usable suspension travel of both?
Click to expand...

that would depend on the ride height and the correct shock for "your" application

for example....on my silver Duster and the majority of the builds, a shock with 5-3/8" travel is used....allowing approx 5-1/2" at the spindle.

some of the slammed version do not have the space for the longer shock and utilize a shock with closer to 4" of travel. I find the longer the shock.....the smoother the ride.This bears out in the fact that the same application will use approx 20% less spring rate when using a 12" spring vs a 10" spring.

no problems with the heim ends....I used them for several years, with and without dust seals.

The "Seals It" seals / dust covers only lasted about 100 miles. That was probably 15 years ago....maybe they have a (improved) street version now. "Seals It" told me back then to inspect / change as needed.... after every race. if you want to try some, I still have a half a coffee can full of them.

Because of the decades of experience, I highly value the feedback I receive regarding the tie rod vs the heim from the street rod crowd. What they say makes sense. They claim the tie rod end is encased in a constant thin layer of lubricant / grease around the ball socket as opposed to the solid mount of the bolt thru the heim. I guess you could call it a little "cush".

not trying to cause a stir.....it is just information....and it is FREE
 
I'll have my Alterkation this Friday. Bill told me that the track width is determined by the disc brake setup you decide to go with. He sells Wilwood... One kit he sells moves the stock track width out by 3/8". The other he sells, moves the stock track width IN by 3/8". I liked that his kit came totally complete, and I didn't have to add anything to it, other than brakes. I wanted it for the extra room, mostly. But I liked the idea of having a manual rack as well as coil over tuning.... Which you can obviously get from either system.
 
nitrojunkee said:
I'll have my Alterkation this Friday. Bill told me that the track width is determined by the disc brake setup you decide to go with. He sells Wilwood... One kit he sells moves the stock track width out by 3/8". The other he sells, moves the stock track width IN by 3/8". I liked that his kit came totally complete, and I didn't have to add anything to it, other than brakes. I wanted it for the extra room, mostly. But I liked the idea of having a manual rack as well as coil over tuning.... Which you can obviously get from either system.
Click to expand...

you are going to love that thing..
 
I understand and have often contemplated offering a complete kit. However , I have found that I can offer a package with distinct added benefits, minus three big UNMODIFIED bolt on / over the counter items (rack, coil over, spindles).....and when everything is added up, the builder (YOU) can save a ton of money.....like $600- $700.

Hot Rod 101.....get the best bang for your buck.

Joes right.... you will like the new feel.
 
I'll chime in, I love my HDK. I can attest to how well built it is and how my car handles / drives. I didn't have to buy any special wheels with different back spacing which saved a boat load of cash. The setup is less expensive than the RMS also. My Demon will be the 3rd A-body that I have used the HDK and for me its a no brainier. All 3 had to be special built for each application. The Hemi Duster was a 5 speed, the 1968 Hemi barracuda was installed with a motor plate so the HDK was really easy to use and the Demon was different in that I wanted to use the factory heater - A/C box with a really big blower motor, I also wanted to use a power rack with a FLAT hood. Fits like a glove. Just my 2 cents.
 
The one thing I like about the Alterktion is the shock towers. Bill's setup uses a fabricated shock tower that is welded to the K member thus taking all the stress off of the inner fender. To me this seems to be the best setup structurally.

The inner fenders were never designed to carry the weight of the car. The Alterkation deals with this with their fabricated shock towers. Hemi Denny uses a bracket to reinforce the shock mount area. Both work. Bill's setup though has longevity on its side. He's been selling his setup for over a decade, Hemi Denny for a few years.

I've been researching and building my car for almost a decade and I can say I've never heard a negative word regarding the Alterktion [other than the fact that its so darn expensive and people are upset that they can't afford it. ;) ]

What changes would I make to Bill's or Denny's setups?

Well for Bill's I'd love to see Chrylsler spindles. I know that there are more brake setups for pinto front ends, but I'd like to keep stock brakes as an option to help keep the cost down. Also I'd like to see him use tie rod ends and bushings in a few places that he uses heim joints. [Both of these might be impossible for various reasons that only Bill could explain. Remember people, engineering is all about trade offs]

For Denny's I'd like to see a better solution for the upper shock mount.

What will I choose? Unfortunately I am keeping the stock setup as I simply can't afford either setup.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
I've got the alterkation on my 67 Coronet. All I can say is it's one of the best riding hot rods I've been in. Granted there have been some issues to work through that weren't advertised but I can honestly say it's an absolute joy driving this beast. I also have the rms 4link in the back with a mini tub. Bill will work with you and never leave you pissing in the wind and yes it's expensive stuff. I'm good with $$$$ if it works.
Sunday I had a nice run with a 2013 Z06 corvette and pulled away from him easily on a big bend that most cars would rollover on.
 

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The HDK's upper shock mount is actually very strong and does not compromise the inner
fender panel sheet metal for support.

Photos show how the very heavily made pocket locates in the area below the stock upper
shock mount and then the support loop bolts to it making a complete triangulated piece.
There is one large bolt that locates the assembly through the original top shock hole and
the bolt at the bottom of the pocket is in an area of very thick metal just above the frame
rail. When all is tightened down it makes the whole assembly extremely rigid as I'm sure
that anyone who has installed one can attest to.


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abodyjoe said:
you are going to love that thing..
Click to expand...

It drives and handles like a new car. Steers easier and smoother despite 3+ degrees more castor. Handles bumps better too. And the headers fit. It also is designed to be 3/4" lower than the milodon pan it was designed to be used with so it is virtually impossible to damage the pan.

What style engine mounts does the hemiD's setup use? Biscuit or spool
 
HemiDenny: I am going to ask for more information. I have looked into both. Could you send me some information and a price list? I like the looks of your work. Not sure if you got my PM. Does your system work with the stock t-bars? What would you suggest for steering? Is your setup designed for a rack? Thank you for your help.:glasses7:
 
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