Am I cooked like this wire?

[Mattax]

This is why a couple of us were suggesting to use the ohm meter to track it down.

I assume autozone or some one could test it???

Sortof. They'll connect to a machine and it will tell them good or bad - maybe.
Don't expect them to have a clue.
Using your hand held meter you can check the basics. If the meter can measure current up to 10 amps, you can check field current draw.

I also found a single wire going to temp sensor hooked to a little light under the dash so that tells me temp gauge isn’t working so I’m going to end up pulling the cluster out and try to get that fixed.

I'm not following this

I kinda feel like it all has to do with this half cocked useable link that was drilled through the bulkhead to amp gauge because that was unplugged and u didn’t do it.

Something went wrong, and/or he or the mechanic thought they were upgrading the system. Since the company MADD posted a long essay on 'upgrading' to avoid a lot of people have gone that guidance ... mostly into electrical hell.

 

[MountainMan73]

This is why a couple of us were suggesting to use the ohm meter to track it down.


Sortof. They'll connect to a machine and it will tell them good or bad - maybe.
Don't expect them to have a clue.
Using your hand held meter you can check the basics. If the meter can measure current up to 10 amps, you can check field current draw.

I'm not following this

Something went wrong, and/or he or the mechanic thought they were upgrading the system. Since the company MADD posted a long essay on 'upgrading' to avoid a lot of people have gone that guidance ... mostly into electrical hell.

That’s what I was meaning I’ve ohm just about everything with exception of the vr cause I broke it trying to get the cover off. So I’m at a loss. As far as the temperature thing. So there was one single blue wire from the temp sensor through firewall to a little red light that was on the steering column bracket. So I’m assuming when that sensor opened or closed which ever way they’re designed that little red light would come on to let you know engine was overheating lol. So I am assuming the temp gauge on the instrument cluster is inop and someone bypassed it that way. So with all that said and I don’t know much about it haven’t researched it was that considered the amp gauge bypass or something? And going forward does that really need done?

 

[Mattax]

That’s what I was meaning I’ve ohm just about everything with exception of the vr cause I broke it trying to get the cover off

I may have misled you to jumping the gun in the approach.
What we suggesting is probe for a ground down the circuits that seemed to be shorting. Then pull of or disconnect segments until it goes away or is found. I'll sketch this in a minute.

As far as the temperature thing. So there was one single blue wire from the temp sensor through firewall to a little red light that was on the steering column bracket.

Do you know if the car was hoit rodded to any extent?
Some more photos maybe we can spot things.
I think we all were assuming fairly stock setup other than the electronic ignition.

So I am assuming the temp gauge on the instrument cluster is inop and someone bypassed it that way. So with all that said and I don’t know much about it

maybe. or maybe there are two senders?

haven’t researched it was that considered the amp gauge bypass or something? And going forward does that really need done?

I thought the red wire does go to the amp gage R terminal.
But you saw a fusible link hanging disconnected?

There really is no reason to bypass the ammeter on a factory system. Changing to EFI or something like that calls for a different wiring strategy where an ammeter can get difficult to include.

 

[Mattax]

What we suggesting is probe for a ground down the circuits that seemed to be shorting. Then pull of or disconnect segments until it goes away or is found. I'll sketch this in a minute.

The procedure might go like this.
Connect or probe the meter to a body ground and the other probe to the I-1 (Blue with stripe J2 wire) on the ignition switch connector.
If it grounds. Then remove the connector from the switch. Probe the J2 wire terminal. I think the terminal also has a G2 wire (to the gages or a warning light.)

Lets say that showed continuity to ground.
Then disconnect that wire at the regulator.

If it still showed continuity to ground, then disconnect the at the ballast resistor.

If its still shows a short, then then the wire is grounding. ^Illustrated above^


But if it showed infinity, ie no connection to ground, then connect the meter at the ballast resistor terminal. Keeping in mind the ballast resistor is around .5 to .6 ohms, probe the other terminal as well.

 

[MountainMan73]

I may have misled you to jumping the gun in the approach.
What we suggesting is probe for a ground down the circuits that seemed to be shorting. Then pull of or disconnect segments until it goes away or is found. I'll sketch this in a minute.


Do you know if the car was hoit rodded to any extent?
Some more photos maybe we can spot things.
I think we all were assuming fairly stock setup other than the electronic ignition

Standard 318. Upgraded ignition, street demon carb with electric choke. It had a holley carb that was all but done. I put the street demon on it when I first got it running again. And a edlebrock intake manifold

maybe. or maybe there are two senders?
Theres only one coolant sender and a oil pressure sender

I thought the red wire does go to the amp gage R terminal.
But you saw a fusible link hanging disconnected?
Yes. When I disconnected the middle bulkhead connector on the firewall I found the red wire going to the amp gauge in instrument cluster and I found that fusable link disconnected. The plastic cover over the spade connector wasn't even on it. Now that being said I could have accidently disconnected it without knowing but I really feel I didn't because I didn't even see it.

There really is no reason to bypass the ammeter on a factory system. Changing to EFI or something like that calls for a different wiring strategy where an ammeter can get difficult to include.

Sorry If this is hard to read I couldn't figure out how to answer the question like you did.

 

[str12-340]

I applaud your decision to replace the wiring harness. I presume that you are starting with an original harness, now 50-55 years old, and I bet that no one has ever cleaned the contacts in the bulkhead connector which are now building heat due to resistance in the connections. If you do replace the underhood harness (which is exposed to a lot more weather and heating/cooling cycles in there with the engine) be sure to take the dash side of the bulkhead connector into the inside of the cabin where you can push out and clean all the connectors with something like De-Ox. Then use liberal amounts of di-electric grease when reassembling the bulkhead connector to slow down oxidation in the future.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I didn't read through four pages, but before you touched anything, did you run some checks with a VOM? A short would be very easy to find. Since you've now removed the VR and changed some things, that might be difficult now.

 

[MountainMan73]

I applaud your decision to replace the wiring harness. I presume that you are starting with an original harness, now 50-55 years old, and I bet that no one has ever cleaned the contacts in the bulkhead connector which are now building heat due to resistance in the connections. If you do replace the underhood harness (which is exposed to a lot more weather and heating/cooling cycles in there with the engine) be sure to take the dash side of the bulkhead connector into the inside of the cabin where you can push out and clean all the connectors with something like De-Ox. Then use liberal amounts of di-electric grease when reassembling the bulkhead connector to slow down oxidation in the future.

Thank you and this is my exact thought. I have to replace the bulkhead because it has a drilled out hole in it from the amp bypass that was done so Ill defiantly be cleaning all those up I'm even toying the idea of replacing the dash harness as well because look at the fuse block the fuse holders themself are looking pretty rusty as well. I just want the thing to be right and peace of mind when driving ya no.

 

[MountainMan73]

I didn't read through four pages, but before you touched anything, did you run some checks with a VOM? A short would be very easy to find. Since you've now removed the VR and changed some things, that might be difficult now.

I tested pretty much everything I could and when I couldnt find it I started taking stuff off to replace.

 

[Mattax]

There's a TSB about choke shorts in '73 but '69 should not have an electric choke assist.

The 1970 Hamtramck Registry "1973 Plymouth, Chrysler & Imperial TSBs" Page

Considering how cut up and modified the existing harness is, if you can swing for the M&H harness(es) then that's a good route.

Let's see the alternator and the rest of the engine bay.
Hopefully we can do better walking you through the alternator checks.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I'd sure hate to see a new harness installed and something burn that up, too. That's always a risk when you don't find the smoking gun. No pun intended.

 

[Mattax]

OK. Rusty. Then lets try to figure out if it could be the VR.

@MountainMan73
Was it smoking while the key was held in start? or was it smoking when the engine was running?

 

[CRUZE 418]

Crackedback can make him a relay harness for the choke. Choke shouldn't just get attached to an ignition circuit. He made one for me, attached it in gang with his headlight relay harness. Dash harness, though expensive, not that difficult to install.

 

[MountainMan73]

I'd sure hate to see a new harness installed and something burn that up, too. That's always a risk when you don't find the smoking gun. No pun intended.

i totally agree looks like the harness about 260ish.

 

[CRUZE 418]

That's kinda high for an engine harness. You must be looking at the engine and light forward harness. The electronic one has a different ballast and alt connections, voltage regulator and plug in for an ECU.

 

[MountainMan73]

OK. Rusty. Then lets try to figure out if it could be the VR.

@MountainMan73
Was it smoking while the key was held in start? or was it smoking when the engine was running?

I had it running she fired right up I backed it out of garage and was sitting in it and smelt something burning and it went to smoking out of the dash. So I turned the switch off and it stopped. Turned switch on for a few seconds and didn't see any smoke. Then I cranked it back up and it started smoking again then immediately killed it and disconnected the battery and pushed it back in the garage. Looked under the hood but didn't really see anything and was pressed for time so I just let it be till I had more time to dive in to it. But I cant say with 100% confidence it wasn't already cooking with key in start and then when it started running it just magnified the issue. But I feel like if it was going to smoke with key just on it would have but it didn't Im really leaning toward that VR I hate I friggin broke it trying to take the cover I broke a post that holds the board. I wonder if I could solder it back together and atleast bench test it.

 

[MountainMan73]

That's kinda high for an engine harness. You must be looking at the engine and light forward harness. The electronic one has a different ballast and alt connections, voltage regulator and plug in for an ECU.

Your exactly right I was looking at engine and light truthfully I could get by with just the engine.

 

[MountainMan73]

That's kinda high for an engine harness. You must be looking at the engine and light forward harness. The electronic one has a different ballast and alt connections, voltage regulator and plug in for an ECU.

Do you have any suggestions for a place to buy? I know my father back in the day bought a ton of stuff from Year One.

 

[Mattax]

Then I cranked it back up and it started smoking again then immediately killed it and disconnected the battery and pushed it back in the garage.

This was where we got a bit lost. When you say you cranked it up, you're telling us its running. There are other terms commonly used that trip up the message/description. It's not right or wrong, it just is a part of working on cars. I'll make another post with examples.

I had it running she fired right up I backed it out of garage and was sitting in it and smelt something burning and it went to smoking out of the dash. So I turned the switch off and it stopped.

So it was definately running when the ignition wire (J2) was cooking.
That removes the likelyhood of backfeeding from ignition start (J3) to (J2).
The key switch has no signs of shorting to its housing.
The feed to the alternator field is in poor condition but no signs of melting. (yes?)
If you had looked at the ammeter, I assume you have told us. Even if you had, its possible its been bypassed.

More photos when you have a chance. Right now it seems the most likely possibilty is something at the voltage regulator.
I say that because even full fielding, the J2 wire and the smaller diameter green (R3) wire can handle 3-4 or even 5 - 6 amps.
On the other hand, smoke only appeared with the engine running. The difference between key in run and key in run with engine running is the alternator.

So lets see what type of alternator is on there and how its wired. Once we see what it is, we can say to check it for shorts, and current draw.

As far as the voltaage regulator goes, I wouldn't sweat it.
Before you chuck it, check the resistance from the ignition feed to the housing.

if its zero, then that's probably it.

Ignition to field would be close to zero on a mechanical one, but I don't know how the electronic ones work.
The one pictured above came from FBO on ebay. It looks like this inside.

 

[MountainMan73]

There's a TSB about choke shorts in '73 but '69 should not have an electric choke assist.

http://[URL]https://www.hamtramck-historical.com/1973-TSB-Index.shtml

[/URL]

Considering how cut up and modified the existing harness is, if you can swing for the M&H harness(es) then that's a good route.

Let's see the alternator and the rest of the engine bay.
Hopefully we can do better walking you through the alternator checks.

 

[Mattax]

Year One has or had an exclusive on certain M&H products that they contracted for in the begining of companies making reproductions.

Lets see what else the engine has that will help with a purchasing decision.
If the alternator is stock, and the carb doesn't need an electric choke connection, then the electronic ignition is easy to add on your own. This car doesn't need the dual ballast.

 

[Mattax]

The engine bay looks beautiful.
Some custom stuff.
Alt looks to be a grounded field set up. It's been rebuilt. Lets see the wires that connected to it.

 

[MountainMan73]

The engine bay looks beautiful.
Some custom stuff.
Alt looks to be a grounded field set up. It's been rebuilt. Lets see the wires that connected to it.

Thank you my dad put a lot of effort into this car. You can see in the one picture the insulation gone off that alternator wire

 

[Mattax]

This mark on the front housing doesn't look right.

You could check the resistance from the Batt terminal on the alternator to the housing. It should be isolated.

On the back we see the three positive and three negative diodes. The positive three are isolated from the housing. One looks like it may be out of place?

Since its already off the car, and I'm a little suspicous of that mark on the front and the diode, for now lets hold off on field current check.
You could remove the grounded brush, and then check for short in the field circuit by touching one probe to the fiueld terminal and the other proble to the housing.

 

[Mattax]

View attachment 1716524945

View attachment 1716524946
Thank you my dad put a lot of effort into this car. You can see in the one picture the insulation gone off that alternator wire

Yes a shame about the wiring. I think the electric is challenging for many, even those mechanically inclined. I only got a better understanding in the past 10 or 15 years. A big help from "Nacho" on moparts and some of the guys here too.

The damage to the green wire is pretty typical. Obviously the ring terminal is a repair or the replacement.
One thing that doesn't help is when we do mechanical work and the wires are "in the way". They get shoved, yanked and pulled. When you put a new harness in, try to route and support it like the factory. All those supports and strain relief were for a reason! A lot of us didn't appreciate that - I was guilty as any.

The damage at the connector is a lot more than just the ignition wire.