Amp Meter Jumping & Head Lights Flickering.

[RPMagoo]

Many of You have read My previous post regarding this problem. At that time, this was happening at low speeds / RPMs, and went away at higher speeds / RPMs. -- Now it's the opposite - little or no flickering at low RPMs, and violent jumping of the amp meter, and flickering of the lights at higher RPMs. -- I'm obviously not into the electrical part of a vehicle. -- This is a photo of the electrical gadgets, under the hood of My 65 Valiant. -- Any ideas which of the circled items may be causing this problem ?

 

[Darter6]

You may want to switch out #1, the voltage regulator, to a modern solid state type.The old mechanical type with points can do what you have stated.(It did on my 67) Try a Wells VR706 from a parts house such as Auto Zone or Advanced .

 

[krazykuda]

Check all the wires in the bulkhead connector, especially the hot wire coming from the main battery terminal on the alternator (the one that connects to the stud on the back of the alt)...

I would also suggest looking under the dash. I had a "flickering gauge and light problem" in a 69 Valiant, and it turned out that some of the wires under the dash overheated, melted the insulation off, then would make intermittant short as the car vibrated down the road against the dash frame... I was going through alternators and regulators in 6-9 months.. Trace the main power wire under the dash that comes from the alternator mentioned above into the dash, up through the gauge, then to the fuse block...

After rewiring all the bad wires under the dash and the main charging and ignition system under the hood, I never blew another alternator or regulator for the rest of the life of the car....

 

[4spdragtop]

I just started 2 threads in elec and ignition forum in regards to ammeter and bypassing it.
List what you have for Ign/charging components...
Do the MAD electrical upgrade. Google it.

 

[4spdragtop]

And carry a fire extinguisher.

 

[RPMagoo]

-- You may want to switch out #1, the voltage regulator, to a modern solid state type.The old mechanical type with points can do what you have stated.(It did on my 67) Try a Wells VR706 from a parts house such as Auto Zone or Advanced . --

-- Installed a new VR706 - No change, -- Hate to spend the bucks - BUT - I'm headed to repair shop/mechanic. -- Thanks to all. -- I'll report on the results.

 

[4spdragtop]

Make sure your mechanic is aware of the MAD upgrade.

-- Installed a new VR706 - No change, -- Hate to spend the bucks - BUT - I'm headed to repair shop/mechanic. -- Thanks to all. -- I'll report on the results.

 

[4spdragtop]

I just noticed, if you swapped to a new style VR, you may need to change alternator as well, from 1 field to 2 field.

 

[RedFish]

If your mechanical is familiar with the pre 1970 and post 1970 electrical system differences, and why all this was changed, he'll be able to sort it for you.
At minimum, He'll install a 60 amp square back isolated field alternator and regulator plus he'll add at least 1 relay to remove the added load from your pre 1970 ignition switch and wiring.

 

[RPMagoo]

Too much for Me and My mechanic. - Alternator checked OK by a rebuild shop -- New VR706 Voltage regulator -- new battery -- New ignition switch -- Switched to another complete dash panel. -- Checked and rechecked all grounds. -- Amp meter still jumps and lights flicker, more so at higher RPMs. - I'm aware of the MAD system, but really don't want to do that much rewiring. -- Thinking about selling it, and let a new owner deal with it.

 

[1969383S]

There is a bad connection somewhere. Bulkhead connectors are always subject. This why I completely replaced every harness in my 69 regardless of how it looked! And yes always Carry an extinguisher in the car!!!! Single field alternator (Round Back) and the newer solid state regulator work just fine! These issues are posted regularly on this site and every time the Mad comes up. I say 95% of these issues are hacked harnesses and just plain old ones. Do yourself a favor and have your mechanic replace the harnesses with new ones from M&H or bring it and your wallet (for new harnesses) to me and I will do it for you.

 

[krazykuda]

Too much for Me and My mechanic. - Alternator checked OK by a rebuild shop -- New VR706 Voltage regulator -- new battery -- New ignition switch -- Switched to another complete dash panel. -- Checked and rechecked all grounds. -- Amp meter still jumps and lights flicker, more so at higher RPMs. - I'm aware of the MAD system, but really don't want to do that much rewiring. -- Thinking about selling it, and let a new owner deal with it.

You're gonna give up that easy...

It's either a short or a ground issue...

Did you look for any wires under the dash that could have some missing insulation and grounding out...

Run it at night an look for sparks jumping in the dark...

 

[1969383S]

Buy new harnesses and ditch #5. Put a Pertonix in and hide the electronic ignition inside your distributor. Your very nice looking engine bay deserves it!

 

[4spdragtop]

Altho I haven't tackled mine yet, there is fack all for rewiring. The shittiest part is getting the cluster out just enough to disconnect ammeter.

Side note ive read amd been told with new new VR you will need a newer style alt but 69383S disagrees. Im no electrician so I will concede to the more knowledgable. Dont give up. I plan on doing mine soon.

 

[1969383S]

Altho I haven't tackled mine yet, there is fack all for rewiring. The shittiest part is getting the cluster out just enough to disconnect ammeter.

Side note ive read amd been told with new new VR you will need a newer style alt but 69383S disagrees. Im no electrician so I will concede to the more knowledgable. Dont give up. I plan on doing mine soon.

Only disagree cause I had run the (Blue pre 70 Mopar solid state unit) previously and never had an issue. Switched to the solid state unit that looks like the stock points original and for the last 2 years it has been rock solid and looks bone stock, they were not available 30 years ago when converting to the electronic box. I also run the repro (AGM) battery and it has been great! The big thing to me was the wiring was brittle and until you strip the insulation off it may look fine, but underneath you may see lots of green corrosion. These cars are old and to me worth replacing that old wire if not to fix an issue but just for piece of mind. Why spend thousands to fix rust and paint to skimp here? The Mad modification makes good sense for those wanting power for extra goodies and such, but if you run a basic stocker and want more originality, then the original set-up refreshed is just fine (IMO).

 

[toolmanmike]

You're gonna give up that easy...

It's either a short or a ground issue...

Did you look for any wires under the dash that could have some missing insulation and grounding out...

Run it at night an look for sparks jumping in the dark...

Isn't there a common ground under the dash that is just a group of wires twisted together with black tape on them? Problem area?

 

[4spdragtop]

You might be thinking of "the splice". Assclown engineers, they're black wires but they are actually powered.

 

[4spdragtop]

Ok maybe Im misunderstanding. I dont wanna muddy the waters anymore.
1. Old style VR = old skool 1 wire alt.
2. New style VR with old skool looks= old skool 1 wire alt. (same as what I did)
3. New style VR with triangle plug = newer 2 field alternator.

Choices 1&2 above use 1 wire alternator.
Choice 3 requires new style alt.(unless im mistaken)

I didnt mention choice 2 earlier as I didn't want to confuse/mix anything up.
Agreed you spend TONS of $$ on paint etc, ya gotta do due diligence with the wiring.

 

[RPMagoo]

-- 3. New style VR with triangle plug = newer 2 field alternator.
Choice 3 requires new style alt.(unless im mistaken) --

-- I Have a new style VR - Not the type with a triangle plug. it's a VR706 from Auto Zone. - Read about it, on the Auto Zone site. -- If I switch to a 2 field alternator, where does the second wire go ?? -- On the 1 field unit the single field wire goes into the harness, then to the VR.

 

[RPMagoo]

-- Buy new harnesses and ditch #5. --- Put a Pertonix in and hide the electronic ignition inside your distributor. --

-- Where can I buy a new harness ? -- I have a Pertronix, on MY 33 coupe (383). There's no hiding to it - that's just part of the unit. -- Am I correct on that ?

 

[RPMagoo]

[QUOTE="toolmanmike, post: 1971392728, member: 2106" -- ] -- Isn't there a common ground under the dash that is just a group of wires twisted together with black tape on them? Problem area? -- [/QUOTE] -- Yep - BUT -- that's immediately next to a, multi post, plug that hooks into the dash. - It would be very difficult - to impossible to sort those wires out individually, to do any sort of repair, on them. -- Am I missing something, on this ?

 

[RPMagoo]

-- Do yourself a favor and have your mechanic replace the harnesses with new ones from M&H --

-- I looked at M&H. That, in-dash, harness is a HU300A from Year One. The picture is very small and difficult to do a comparison. -- I can call Year One for more info - It's $600+. -- I really don't want to tie-up a lot of $$ into this car. - It's real nice and fun, -- BUT -- I also have a 33 Coupe, and I'm too old to keep up with 2.

 

[RedFish]

You might be thinking of "the splice". Assclown engineers, they're black wires but they are actually powered.

Those black wires are hot wires too. They're carrying current that will reach the chassis ground and the battery neg' eventually. Best example is test lamp between neg battery post and that wire terminal. If there is a closed/complete circuit anywhere, the lamp glows. Thus all black wires are hot wires too. For the caveman in you, red is fire, black is hot ashes. LOL
I know this stuff don't make sense but look at the battery, 2 wires, a red and a black. Every extension/branch is one or the other. All the pretty colors and tracers were used where the number of wires increases ( where it gets a little more complicated ).
For what its worth... Those who work with copper traces on tiny printed circuit boards all day every day ( My brother for one ) are laughing at us.
"one wire" or "two wire" alternator is actually closed field and isolated field. The 60 amp isolated field system wasn't added so you could give someone a jump start. The resistors ( from ballast resistor to the small ones inside a solids state ignition ) need a full 12 volts in one side so the proper reduced voltage comes out the other side.
Hell I give up too. Where's Del ? Good luck to all.

 

[4spdragtop]

Ok so the VR706, is that a new style? Thats the type that was on dads cuda when he bought it 4 years ago. I assumed it was old style but I couls be wrong.
My cuda is doa right now I haven't dug into it yet

 

[RedFish]

Ok so the VR706, is that a new style? Thats the type that was on dads cuda when he bought it 4 years ago. I assumed it was old style but I couls be wrong.
My cuda is doa right now I haven't dug into it yet

VR706 is only a modern solid state ( less expensive to build but more reliable is questionable ) way to do the same "one wire" closed field system. It just might increase the running voltage a bit, to 13.2 or so.