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Electrical and Ignition

  1. fwi

    fwi Active Member

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    Yes I have read every similar post I could find here and other sites and have performed most of the tests suggested and it still won't fire!
    Background info:
    Bought the car 10 days ago, it's a 1964 with stock Slant 6 motor, ran pretty good. Drove it 140 miles round trip last weekend to a car show, came home no problems.
    Decided to check plugs etc....just to familiarize myself with the slant 6 (it's my first one, all others have been 440 and 383's).
    Followed advice on removing plug washers before re installing (NGK R4's).
    Went to start it, would not turn over, but had power, shorted solenoid, it fired right up, replaced Starter Relay and now it cranks over but will not start.
    It is getting plenty of fuel, so that's out.
    Checked Ballast resistor, reads 1.4
    Checked ohms at Coil, read 1.2 and 10,500 or so.
    Put the light on block ground and + at coil, light comes on, but then, when cranking engine, light stays on, does not blink on and off......Could this indicate distributor problem?
    Checked all wiring, nothing loose or broken that I can see.
    Brand new Battery.
    Newish spark plug wires,
    New rotor,
    New distributor cap.
    "Older: electronic module in distributor...see pic
    I am by no means an expert on electronics or anything else for that matter, just know enough to get myself into trouble.
    What else can I do, I am going out of my mind trying to nail this one down!

    IMG_1377.JPG
     
  2. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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    With dist cap off does rotor rotate when cranking?
     
  3. RedFish

    RedFish Well-Known Member

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    When you jumped the starter solenoid the ignition switch was in run position. "It fired right up". Wild guess.. just maybe the root fault is the ignition switch. Just to test try that again. Maybe the ignition switch is intermittently loosing connections in start position. Maybe the starter relay wasn't bad after all.
     
  4. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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    That would be expected as the dist / ignition module opens and closes a connection to ground.
     
  5. fwi

    fwi Active Member

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    I thought it is supposed to blink on and off when cranking.
     
  6. fwi

    fwi Active Member

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    I will try that.

    Will try this again.
     
  7. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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    Pos battery to light to negative wire removed from coil would blink on cranking.(assuming all else is working correctly)

    Standard point or electronic trigered ignition open and close the ground to charge and discharge the coil
     
  8. fwi

    fwi Active Member

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    Distributor spins when cranking.
    Still no start with ignition on and shorting solenoid.

    Would you all agree that I can probably rule out:
    Starter solenoid,
    Ignition switch,
    Starter relay,
    Ballast resistor,
    Spark plugs, almost new.
    Plug wires, also almost new.

    One more test.....took out a spark plug, with it connected to the plug wire, leaning against the block, there does not seem to be any spark when cranking motor.

    Could my problem be in that distributor?
     
  9. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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    You checked voltage to the plus side of coil with key in run position, what about start position?
    Does your electronic ignition module need a power source? If so is it good in start and run?
    With no other info I'm leaning toward bad ignition ctl mod or what ever is in your dist.
     
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    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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      !!!YIKES!!!

      Download the destructions for your Pertronix ignition (Seems like that is what this is?

      Make these tests:

      Turn key to run. Measure coil + to ground. Should be somewhere from 6ish to 11ish volts assuming the coil resistor has not been bypassed.

      With meter still hooked in this manner, crank engine using key. Coil + should read at least 10.5V

      If engine will not crank, find out why first. Keep the "bulkhead connector" in the back of your mind. Would not hurt to give it a good "wiggle."

      Is this an auto or stick?

      If a stick car, the starter relay should have just one "push on" flag terminal. Measure that to ground with key in "start". Should have 12V there. If not find out why. That is one wire goes from that terminal, through the bulkhead, to the "start" terminal on the key.

      If an auto, same as above except starter relay has an additonal flap "push on" terminal for the neutral safety switch. This wire runs from that second flag terminal, down the firewall, to the neutral switch on the transmission. Hold the key to start, wiggle the shifter from park to neutral and see if it cranks or clicks

      If not, measure the transmission wire terminal on the starter relay, connected normally. With the key in "start" you should have near zero volts. If you have 12, you have trouble from that terminal down the wire to and including the neutral switch, or trouble in the transmission.

      NOW!!!!

      If the coil readings at the first of this post were OK, considering "unwiring" the ignition so you can "jig it up" simple as possible. Run red wire of ignition module to coil + Run other wire to coil --. Provide power to coil + and crank engine, test for spark at coil tower. If you have a tach connected, unhook it. Make sure there is only the ONE wire hooked to coil--

      If this produces no spark, it is either the coil or the module
       
      Last edited: May 11, 2019
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      • fwi

        fwi Active Member

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        Sorry, I forgot to include that it is 3 on the tree.....I will attempt those tests tomorrow. Thank you for all the help.....I may not be done yet!:BangHead:
         
      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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        If it won't crank with the key, make certain the starter relay is GROUNDED, and that it has only the one flag "push on" terminal. If it has two, you will have to ground the remaining one. Those are the coil for the relay. Start power goes to one, the nss grounds the other end. OEM stick relays have the coil grounded to the case
         
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        • Dana67Dart

          Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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          My sister barrowed my dad's dart once and dragged him all the way from work cause it wouldn't start and her 2 hour parking was almost up. He put it on park and started right up.

          I always overlook the neutral safety switch
          Good thinking 67Dart273. That could easily account for no crank
           
        • fwi

          fwi Active Member

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          It turns over fine and it is a 3 speed. It just will not start.
           
        • fwi

          fwi Active Member

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          What and where is the electronic control module?
           
        • Dana67Dart

          Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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          I assume it is in the dist. in your case, other electronic dist. Have an external control box. Either way it would need a power source to work un like a point style dist.
           
        • fwi

          fwi Active Member

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          I assume this should be done with the 2 + coil wires disconnected, if so, first reading was .09 Volts, second one while cranking showed 0.0 V....Also as I mentioned, removing a spark plug and holding it against block produced no spark when cranking. Would this point to a defective coil, because when I did the coil Ohm test it appeared to be within specs.
           
        • Dana67Dart

          Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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          You can test your coil. Leave the pos terminals attached to coil. Disconnect the negative wires. Take coil wire out of dist cap and place near but not touching a good ground source. With key in the run position take a jumper wire from a good ground and momentarily touch the neg terminal of the coil. This should produce a spark from coil wire to ground.

          I forgot to mention this assumes you have good voltage at the pos terminal of the coil.
           
          Last edited: May 12, 2019
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          • fwi

            fwi Active Member

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            Yes, I do get a spark on the jumper wire, not the coil to distrib wire near a ground source. Is that correct?
             
            Last edited: May 12, 2019
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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            The spark on the negative is not the spark in question.
            Coils are cheap and it seem like you don't have spark, might be worth changing out.
             
          • fwi

            fwi Active Member

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            Yes I am going to buy one tomorrow at Oreilly's and see what happens. Thanks for your help.
             
          • 67Dart273

            67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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            No, test with all wiring connected "normal." However if you have a tach (trigger wire hooks to coil NEG, disconnect it for now

            Coils can be tricky to test. "rig a test gap from coil tower to coil NEG. You can use a spark plug, but use a solid core wire, not a resistor wire. Hook coil + to batt + then tap the NEG coil terminal with a clip lead from the batt neg termainl. They will not always spark as if they were in circuit, but you should be able to get some idea
             
          • fwi

            fwi Active Member

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            Got her started! Replaced the coil, there was also a choke/ vacuum problem my neighbor discovered and helped fix.
            Thanks to everyone at FABO and FBBO for the help, plus I learned a thing or two!
             
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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            Learning is the most important thing second to having fun.
             
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