thesiren74
Well-Known Member
Not knowing cylinder head cc or gasket.
Any advice on my 440 recipe?
- Thread starter standup303
- Start date
thesiren74
Well-Known Member
Oops forgot the +9.00cc so 9.14
As everyone has said wrong cam and wrong pistons. If you really have to re-use the pistons just run it with a stock cam till you get the coin for a rebuild. With that cam and pistons and converter you will just have no fun.
standup303
Well-Known Member
For $375 i don’t have a problem going with new pistons. Learning to calc compression ratio has actually been fun. But I apparently need to go back to the drawing board on the cam now too.
standup303
Well-Known Member
How did you figure deck clearance?
I have a question. Would a 7.5:1 compression 440 that made 427 lb-ft @ 2,500 rpm and 287 hp @ 4,400 rpm be any fun in a Dart with a 2,500 stall converter using 3.73 gears and 275/60/15 tires?
I think (just my BS talking) what he has on the drawing board will make more than that.
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
Call a cam manufacturer to get a recommendation. I'm not discounting anyone's knowledge or experience here, but the cam manufacturers design cams for a living, 40 hours a week. A lot of well-known engine builders have never spec'ed a cam in their lives. They leave it to the pros.
The best results are achieved by being 100% honest with the person to whom you speak. Don't say the car's lighter than it is, or the heads are better than they are. Tell them what you have and what you'd like to accomplish. Be realistic: You won't get a reliable 8,000RPM out of your current base componentry, so don't tell them you want a 7,500RPM shift point. With your goals, you'll probably be steered into a flat-tappet "shelf" cam (something they stock, as opposed to a custom grind) but if that's what they say will work, run it. Don't try to improve on their suggestions unless it involves calling a different cam company.
Download a cam request form from one of the manufacturers (Comp had a good one) so you know what kind of questions you'll be asked. Don't e-mail them, call. I've had two cams designed and shipped in the time since I requested a previous cam, which I did via e-mail and have never heard a peep. I no longer need it, but I still hope someday they'll respond.
standup303
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I will definitely be going this route vs trying to learn all about cams myselfCall a cam manufacturer to get a recommendation. I'm not discounting anyone's knowledge or experience here, but the cam manufacturers design cams for a living, 40 hours a week. A lot of well-known engine builders have never spec'ed a cam in their lives. They leave it to the pros.
The best results are achieved by being 100% honest with the person to whom you speak. Don't say the car's lighter than it is, or the heads are better than they are. Tell them what you have and what you'd like to accomplish. Be realistic: You won't get a reliable 8,000RPM out of your current base componentry, so don't tell them you want a 7,500RPM shift point. With your goals, you'll probably be steered into a flat-tappet "shelf" cam (something they stock, as opposed to a custom grind) but if that's what they say will work, run it. Don't try to improve on their suggestions unless it involves calling a different cam company.
Download a cam request form from one of the manufacturers (Comp had a good one) so you know what kind of questions you'll be asked. Don't e-mail them, call. I've had two cams designed and shipped in the time since I requested a previous cam, which I did via e-mail and have never heard a peep. I no longer need it, but I still hope someday they'll respond.
Gr8polarbear
Well-Known Member
Not a mopar but, years ago had a 1977 chevy concours 305, 8.5:1 with a two barrel and 2.73 gear. Stock was 145 hp. Changed to 4 barrel and cam to edelbrock performer. If running engine out and manual shift from first to second would bark back tire at around 60 mph. Was not a race car by any means but was still a fun little car. So 287 hp with that stall and rear gear in a small car would still be fun.
To someone use to driving a stock small block, it would be a handful for sure, certainly very fun to drive.
Babyblue66
Cool dude
It will work well. I have used the next step smaller whiplash cam in a 7.5 to 1 440. It's 229 242 @.050. I ported my 452s and made 415hp 465 lbs ft on the dyno. I used a ch4b intake and a 750 3310. I just freshened the motor. It was from a 77 fury and had dished pistons. Just make sure you have around 20 degrees initial advance Mine idles great with a very nice lope. Thrott respone is great and it'll blow the tires off.
Use the 20 thou head gaskets.
Also I've used 2500 stall from huges in 2 different cars. One was a gto with a 400 and one camaro with a 383 stroker. Both worked very well just as I wanted them to. I'd use another one.
Use the 20 thou head gaskets.
Also I've used 2500 stall from huges in 2 different cars. One was a gto with a 400 and one camaro with a 383 stroker. Both worked very well just as I wanted them to. I'd use another one.
Babyblue66
Cool dude
With those pistons you will have approximately 8 to 1 with a steel shim head gasket. I have a set of these pistons and just measured them yesterday. It will work just right with that cam. Could you make more power with some 2355s, yes, but if these are new I'd run it with the Hughes cam. I'm very happy with my low compression 440. I do have a 9.5 to 1 440 and it does have a lot more, but my low compression one runs on 87 and drives very well too.
Lots of advance at idle and a quick curve is what you want. My made peak power on the dyno at 38 degrees total. I think I posted it on here a couple of years ago.
Lots of advance at idle and a quick curve is what you want. My made peak power on the dyno at 38 degrees total. I think I posted it on here a couple of years ago.
Babyblue66
Cool dude
One more thing, Ive driven cars with 3.91 gears all over. No big deal. I have 3.55 in my coronet with the low compression 440 and it's just right with a 28 inch tall tire. 3 73 gears isn't much different. It'll be fine.
standup303
Well-Known Member
This someone is used to driving a tired slant 6
Babyblue66
Cool dude
All the people saying the Hughes cam is to much, won't work, not enough compression, have not used one. Or cannot tune an engine.
Maybe 40-years ago this might have been true, but in today's World all you get when you call a cam company is someone that may or may not even have a clue what a cam really does. They all read the computer screen and pick one off the list. Case in point going to your local auto parts store and trying to find someone that knows anything. Trusting the guys on here that have actually had real experience with hundreds of cams is probably a much better guideline in most instances than what the guy looking at the computer screen recommends. Now I am not saying that it will be a 100% correct, however it will give you many examples to synthesize.
The #1 bit of information I can give you from doing this for 40-years is most people end up with more cam in their engine than they need for the components they have around it.
Tom
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standup303
Well-Known Member
I think Summit has a typo on the 424P piston CH, everywhere else shows it as 1.912”. I measured it at 1.945” and at .19685” piston to deck, putting me at 7.32:1 currently. Best piston I could find to get me into the 9:xx range is this dome type from Speed Pro. Puts me at 9.29:1 with stock 90cc heads or 10.11cc if I end up eventually going with 80cc Stealth heads.
I may go this route and give Comp a call Monday. But still exploring all options.
Thanks for all the info, still learning lots every day.
I may go this route and give Comp a call Monday. But still exploring all options.
Thanks for all the info, still learning lots every day.
You should be at 9.1 with the piston I listed.
Post #42.
Any cam will 'work'. But will it provide the best performance that the OP wants to arrive at?
In THIS case the Whiplash [ or any of the other fancy names given to the tight LSA, very extended exh duration cams ] will NOT.
These cams were ground this way to give a lot of low speed overlap.....& a rowdy exh cackle so the girls look at you when you drive by....
There are lots of cams in cam catalogs for people to choose from & any dope can pick one, but it takes a smarter person to pick the right one for the application.
Any cam will 'work'. But will it provide the best performance that the OP wants to arrive at?
In THIS case the Whiplash [ or any of the other fancy names given to the tight LSA, very extended exh duration cams ] will NOT.
These cams were ground this way to give a lot of low speed overlap.....& a rowdy exh cackle so the girls look at you when you drive by....
There are lots of cams in cam catalogs for people to choose from & any dope can pick one, but it takes a smarter person to pick the right one for the application.
Hughes designed the Whiplash cam specifically for the low compression later motors to help build cylinder pressure. I am extremely happy with mine. If a piston change increases to more than 9:1, I would talk with them as you may have issues. People can speculate all they want, they likely never had one or tried them. There are engine builds with dyno sheets on their website.
edit:
Dyno example below. Seems pretty damn healthy to me. Bring on the haters...
edit:
Dyno example below. Seems pretty damn healthy to me. Bring on the haters...
If you just intend for this to be a low dollar street engine I wouldn't even bother buying pistons. Just cut the deck height on the block down. I've done this dozens of time and it will raise the compression faster than trying to find a new piston that you probably don't really need in the first place. I wrote a pretty in depth thread or reply on here on the forum about how to do it along with every detail you need to know doing it this way.
Tom
Tom
Not to argue at all, but it may be easier to shave the heads, yes? Direct Connection Performance Handbook recommends this and he wouldn't need to tear down the short block. 0.060 off the heads and correct about from the intake surfaces will bring up to ~9.8, I believe it says.
