Any non electric 4 speed autos for a 360 mag out there?

Transmission and Drivetrain Tech

  1. 70DusterBob

    70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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    I have a 360 LA in my Duster now. I want to go with the Mag for more power. I was just wondering if there are any 4 speed automatics that are not electronic that would fit the mag motor.

    I don't mind shortening the drive shaft if I need to. What all does it take to go from a 360 LA/727 set up to a Mag/4 Speed Auto set up transmission wise? If it is even available/possible.

    Thanks
     
  2. JoePole1

    JoePole1 A dude in a B body FABO Gold Member

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    A518 or 46RH, 46RE will work with minor electrics. Basically a 3 wire switch to activate OD but you must get them out of earlier 360 truck/jeep. Some were even used in 4.0 jeeps. I believe if you look for model year 1988 you are good but search and find the year range. Mid 90's up will not work for sure. The A518 is basically a 727 with OD. May take some minor fab to your Duster tunnel. Stay away from the A500 variants usually found behind 318's. They are much weaker based on the 904 however they can be beefed up for $$$$.
     
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    • 70DusterBob

      70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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      Thanks, I appreciate the info. I knew they would not be easy to find, if I can even find one, I wasn't sure they even made one w/o electronic controls. I will check around.
       
    • pishta

      pishta I know I'm right....

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      Ford AOD up to at least 89 didnt require any electrics 'cept a neutral and a reverse wire. They work pretty good if you can get it to mate up.
       
    • MileHighDart

      MileHighDart Well-Known Member

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      Look at the threads at the top of the transmission and drive train section. There is a thread with a sticky that is on putting an A500-42rh is a duster
       
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      • Chained_360

        Chained_360 Delusional Member

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        '95 is the last year for the hydraulic A500/A518. Starting in '96 they were electronically controlled.
         
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        • 70DusterBob

          70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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          Thanks I will look it up. I appreciate the tip.
           
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          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            Would you know how I can go about finding one. Harder than a needle in a haystack!
             
          • 67Dart273

            67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Why are you saying Jeep? And something like a 4.0 won't work because the case won't fit Mopar engines. Cases are unique to Mopar smallblock, to Mopar slant six (never made an OD for one) for B/RB (same, no OD) and for Jeep 4.0. Most Jeeps are 4x4 so the tail / OD area is completely different. Different housing and different shaft.

            The main case MUST be compatible with the OD unit, you cannot just bolt an OD to an older 727, AND the thing must be hydraulic (RH series) if you don't want electronic main transmission. The cases and OD housing sections are different
             
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            Wait
            How is a Magnum gonna make more power than your LA360? I'm so confused. I mean they are both the same size engine, so if you build them to the same spec then ... how much more power will the Magnum make? And where will this power be made at. I mean for 20horsepower at 3000rpm, I can throw my 360LA away too. But for 20 at 5800, no thanks.
            But I guess if you want a Magnum for the roller lifters well ok, I get it. Or for the Magnum heads,ok, I get that too.

            And you do realize that the A518 is basically just a 727 with an overdrive right? Jus saying. I know overdrive is nice and all, but they will bolt up to your LA as well.
            But if you want the overdrive so you can run 4.30s on the street, well, you are probably gonna have major traction issues; and so your car could post similar zero to 60 times with 3.23s or 3.55s. Jus saying..

            But if you're going dragracing, well then you'll just be dragging something like 25/30 extra pounds around. But it's a lot cheaper than a trailer!
             
            Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
          • rustycowll69

            rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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            I'm never seen it done, but couldn't you put a 727od behind a slant6 with one of those adapters the factory had in mid to late 60 vans & trucks. I know it's not what OP asked, but I didn't want someone to be misled. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
             
          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            I was under the assumption that a stock mag would have more power than a stock LA. That's what I was trying to ask. I guess I didn't ask it the right way, lol?

            Yes, I do want the A518 for the overdrive. I do a "LOT" of highway driving, and "0" racing. I like to take off, but I don't need a rocket... Know what I mean? I will probably, most likely, go with the Blue Print Engines 408 and work on trying to find an A518. Do you know how I could go about finding one, I plan on looking around the JY's around here to see if they may have something I could rebuild. I am running 3:55's.

            I think that the BPE 408 LA is the best bang for the CID buck. It would only cost like $1000 less to build a stock 360 Mag long block up from crate with what the place offers as it would to buy the long block 408 LA with all it has on it from BPE! So I would say the BPE is a deal.

            I appreciate the input. Every tid bit of information is valuable to me.
             
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            Stock for stock yes. The 5.9 puts out a lil more than the LA. But just try and find an LA that hasn't been in production for over 25 years that doesn't require a rebuild. And so then you can level the playing field, during the rebuild, for little to no extra dollars.So if you already own the 360, it makes no sense to me, to throw it away for a possibly tired Magnum. That is my opinion.

            Now suddenly we hear about a 408. And not for racing.
            But riddle me this; Do you really need to run an A518 with a 408, for your application?
            Well I tell you what, a stroker is really really good at making low rpm torque. This makes needing 4.10s almost ridiculous. And that puts the overdrive on the backburner, IMO.
            A regular 360 will be tons of fun with 3.55s and a regular TorqueFlite. That makes the road gears 8.70-5.15-3.55 and if you say the 360 makes 200ft lbs at 2400rpm then at take-off the 360 will be trying to plant 1740 ftlbs to the pavement. On it's way to peak torque the 360 will eventually make say 420 ftlbs at say 4000rpm at say 35mph and this maths out to 3480 road footpounds. And it will cruise at about 3000rpm

            Now lets look at a mild 408.
            It might start off at 350 ftlbs at 2800, building to 430 at 4000, ok so 350 is 350/200=plus 75% more take off torque. So lets give up some of that tire frying torque, and reduce it to ffun-level.
            >I chose 2.94s cuz they will cruise at 65= less than 2500rpm. Ok so First gear will get you 375x2.45x2.94=2700 road ftlbs on the start line. Whoa that is about 1000 more than the fun 360 was.So that means we can give up either gear or stall.
            >So if a 2500 cruise is too much, lets try 2.76s, one of the strongest 8.75 gears ever built. 65 will be ~ 2340cruise Rpm
            And starting line torque at 2800 will be 2367...... still 36% stronger than the fun 360.
            So that means we can give up some stall.
            >Lets go to a 2400 and get 320ftlbs. Your new startingline road torque comes to 320x2.45x2.76=2164, still 24% better than the fun 360,Are you seeing what I'm seeing?
            >Ok lets put an A518 in there with 3.91s and a 2500TC cuz that is about what you're thinking right?,lol.
            Ok say 2500 is 340 ftlbs your startingline road torque will be 340x2.45x3.91= 3260 ftlbs. A little excessive would you agree, being nearly double the fun 360. And the cruise rpm will be 65 ~2300cruise. Well wouldjah look at that .
            2340cruise rpm earlier(with 2.76s) compared to 2300 now (with 3.91x.69=2.70). and a low gear that you totally waste the tires with. So what is the A518 doing for you? I mean the fun 360 can break the tires loose with its 1740, rev it up and waste the tires too. But he can use all 4 barrels, right away. While yours is, at up to 3260 ftlbs, making a really good smoke show. And your 408 with 2.76s will still out take-off the fun 360.

            Ok so that covers two bases,namely take off and cruising. What about second gear.
            Back to the fun 360. At 30 mph in second gear, he will be cruising at 2000rpm. At the downshift the Revs will jump to 3400 and the roadtorque will be ~1825. How about your 408?
            With 2.76s and 2.45 low your rpm at 30 in second will be 1570, nice. At the KD the revs will climb to 2650. And with the torque still at 340, this makes a roadtorque of 2300, again 26% stronger than the fun 360.
            So the point I'm trying to make is this. Do you really need to run an A518 with a 408, for your application? Or are you spending the time and money on something you just always wanted? Against which there is no argument. lol.

            Now here's the clincher; 60mph at the top of first gear with a 2.76 rear will be ~5300 rpm right near to peak power. 2.94s will put it at~5640, still a pretty good place to be.
            Happy HotRodding
             
            Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            Hey AJ (I think that is your name),

            I really super appreciate your time and knowledge to write this reply. I understand completely what you are talking about. Raising the rear end gear lowers hwy RPM and decreases the overkill torque at take off. I will have brand new 50 series tires on it, pretty wide, with traction bars, but I don't plan on nailing it every time I start off. I use the principle engineering theology they used to teach and practice... Make things 4-5 times stronger than they need to be, that way they won't break on you for sure! That is why these old Mopars are still around, they built them 4-5 times tougher than they needed to be. Not anymore, I don't even think they build them tough enough for moderate duty, lol. Oh, and my 360 is already 60 over.

            I did have 2:72 gears in it before with my 360LA mildly modified and it tweaked out the planetary gear shaft. It was worn literally like half way through when I had it disassembled. Do you think that it would be too much torque for that high of a rear gear set up? Wouldn't the planetary shaft, and the rest of the gears have too much torque going through them? With the 3:55's in there now, the stress is lower on the gears because they are not trying so hard to move the car, and like you said, the tires will break traction under the same amount of torque that will just push them with the higher gear.

            With the 2:72's or 2:76's wouldn't there be more stress on the gears/planetary shaft, and all the assembly, not to mention the U-Joints and tranny? I'm sure you understand like if you are starting your 10 speed bicycle off in 10th gear as opposed to 1st gear, you will be working your legs a lot harder and putting more stress on the chain. Doesn't the same principle apply?

            I will probably stick with the 3:55's for now and see how they do. But it is good to know I can get a higher gear in the rear end and increase my mileage w/o going through the trouble of finding and rebuilding a 4 speed. Extra cool. I'm just concerned about over stressing the drive assembly by doing so. Oh and I will stick with the straight 727 too.

            Bob
             
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            I don't know too much about what kills automatics, cuz I've been a manual trans guy since my second car, purchased in 1970. I've never had an HO 360 /727 combo. So
            As to the planetary hub; you said shaft but I assume you meant hub; I'm guessing it was an aluminum one, and a high mileage one. So maybe that has something to do with it. If you really meant shaft, I have no clue.....
            Now if you have a very low-stall TC then you are gonna put low energy into the trans, so Ima thinking the 2.76s are not the cause of the near failure.
            Unless you were peg legging it. You weren't doing that were you? lol. Or neutral drops, to get it to spin .... were you?
            Because that kind of shock-loading could certainly hurt it. Peg-legging doubles the rear axle speed on the side that is spinning. If that tire is alternately slipping and grabbing, (I mean you'll have to imagine the circumstances for that to occur) well; slipping and grabbing is like a jack-hammer to the trans.
            As the stall-speed goes up, more and more torque goes into the trans, and with the driveshaft sorta held stationary by the 2.76s, hyup the torque goes straight into the planetary. But as long as you don't shock it with neutral drops or J-hooks,or other bad behavior,lol. it shouldn't hurt it. So IDK what killed it.
             
            Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            So your 360 is .060 over,wow. I thought I was pushing the limit at 4.04 bore.
            So then, what did you set the Scr to? and how much cranking cylinder pressure did you get.
            You said mildly built..... but mild to some is not mild to all. For example; I thought mine was mild, but it ended up going 93 in the 1/8th so that isn't all that mild anymore....... IMO. .... lol.
            Post 13 does not work for stock-stroke 360s.
            You can still have a great HO 371 but the torque at low rpm will not compare to a stroker, so then you will have to do some trading. That's just the way it is with a 3 speed.
            To continue with post 13
            Consider your 371 cuber and the A-500 now. Also a 4speed, but with the wider ratios.Since you already have the 3.55s let's see what happens.
            The ratios are 2.74-1.54-1.00-.69od.. With the 3.55s the road ratios are
            9.73-5.47-3.55-2.45. So your 65~less than 2100. So you need a cam that has vacuum peaked prior to that, and a TC that is pretty much hydraulically locked up at that rpm. So lets pick a 2200TC. Ok so now lets say your mildly built 371 makes 280ftlbs at 2200.
            Ok then; 280x3.55x2.74=2723road road ftlbs. which is smoking hot. But she will run outta power at say 5400 so that will get you 42mph. At the shift into second, the Rs will drop to 3000 so she better be ready to pull from there.Well you said not for racing..... and that's what you'll get cuz at 3000, she's not gonna pull very hard. Unless you put the right parts on her.
            But wait, 2723 is a lotta take off power, we could easily give some of that away. Lets try it with the A518.
            The A518 has ratios of 2.45-1.45-1.00-.69od So with 3.55s the cruise rpm remains at 2100, and the TC at 2200. Take off is now 280x3.55x2.45=2435 ftlbs, still plenty. So lets rev that out to 5400..... and we get 48mph. At the shift, the Rs will fall to ~3200 giving you a 200 rpm leg up on the previous combo. So that's a winner. By 60mph the Rs have climbed back up to a tic over 4000. and that's not a winner but better than before.
            But wait, that's kindof a waste of a gear and a waste of the overdrive. Since the engine is mild... lets get the most out of it by reving it out in second at least, to reduce our zero to 60 ET, if nothing else.
            Ok so lets say that engine makes peak power at 4800, so we want to buzz her up to say 5000. This will take 4.30s.
            Ok 4.30s will get you about 4900@60, close enough. And your cruise rpm will then be ~65=2400 at zero-slip. Ok 2400 will let us use a bit more TC, say 2400 now. And say the torque goes up to 285ftlbs. So now our starting line torque will be 285x4.30x2.45=3000!!
            Are you seeing what I'm seeing?
            I'm seeing a hi-compression itty-bitty camed 371 smoking both tires to near 60 mph. You're gonna need a traction aider.
            But wait, you said not for racing,lol
            Obviously at 65=2400 she's not gonna win any awards for fuel-economy.
            That war requires a small displacement engine,a low cruise-rpm,a loc-up TC,a high effective compression ratio, and a light foot.You need a second car..... like a Jetta,lol.
            And , of course, I just threw the 4.30s in for to minimize the 0-60 ET. Maybe that don't matter to you lol.
            Here are two alternatives;
            1)Get a QC rear end and run a regular automatic. Then run 4.30s in the city, and flip the gears for hiway. IIRC Winters makes a real nice combo. I mean it's not quite as convenient but no cutting required and in the end I can't say which is gonna be less expensive.
            2) is the GVOD which bolts onto the 727 and requires very little tunnel mods. Now this one is a gem, cuz you can split gears with it.
            But more importantly is how you get to 60mph.Pay attention;
            You start with the A998/999 with ratios of 2.74-1.54-1.00. You can split these with the GVOD and get ratios of
            2.74-2.13-1.54-1.20-1.00-.78od, GV in red. The splits are
            .78-.72-.78-.83 and skipping all the way to the top gear, .65, totals a 6-gear fully automatic,automatic.
            And you use it with 3.23s to get a starter of 8.85, and the cruiser is 65=2034@zero-slip. Now you're talking economy. How about the zero to 60. Well you would hit it with first-od to get 60=5400rpm. And the starter torque is 285x2.74x3.23=2522 road ftlbs
            And the clincher is this; 5400 in first will be 47mph. At the shift, into GVOD, the Rs will drop to 4200. Not 3000, and not 3200, but to 4200. That will be way up the power curve.
            So feel free to reduce your cam size,lol.
            So with the GVOD and the wide-ratio loc-up A999 you would have all the bases covered:
            Cruise rpm is 2034@65,
            Starter is 8.85 and 2522 road ftlbs, more than adequate for this combo,and
            the perfect zero to 60 gears. You can take out a bit of cam and go for the mileage, or leave it in ......and hey guess what; downshifting at 30 mph into first will get you about 3500rpm and instant tiresmoke. You gottaluvit.Who says you need 400hp,meh. You can have a lotta fun with say 330hp, if you got the right gears.


            Btw, this combo will get you 106mph at ~5400. Which requires a W/P of 10.4, so a Duster on the startline might weigh 3400 max and 3400/10.4 is wait for it............ 327 horsepower, a very mild 371 at ~.88hp per cube.
            Badaboom!
             
            Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            The planetary gears run on a shaft right? Like a solid steel cylinder about 3/4" in dia, maybe 6" long. The gears wore that shaft in half, I mean where they ride on that shaft/cylinder. I have to attach a pic of it, but I have to get a picture of it first. Lemme work on that and you will be able to see what I'm referring to. Yeah I spun one wheel a few times, but nothing like a lot. Maybe once or twice at full throttle, didn't need to do that, just fun, but it was a dog taking off with a 318 in it. I think I popped the clutch one time in it and it slipped the clutch so I stopped immediately. I had a standard 318 in front of it. But that was the extent of abuse I put it through. Could that little bit of abuse caused something like that? Again, I will attach or insert a pic maybe tomorrow. I have it still, if I can find it, lol? And yeah, it was probably pushing 200k miles... with all that said, I don't know how the person before me drove it!

            Thanks
             
          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            I need more time to reply to your second reply, but should have time tomorrow...

            hopefully
             
          • TrailBeast

            TrailBeast AKA Mopars4us on Youtube

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            Here's an A518 with a converter and balanced plate if you are interested.
            [FOR SALE] - A518 4sp transmission

            I am running an A500 (42RH) behind a mild built 5.9 Magnum disguised as an LA that is set up to fully automatically shift through 1-2-3-OD-lockup without an expensive stand alone computer or manual activation at all.
            Or I can turn either or both OD and lockup off if I don't want to use them.
            Been watching your questions but don't have a lot of time right now, cause the Wife has me remodeling a master bath along with reconditioning an old clawfoot tub.:D

            The 518 requires fairly extensive floor cutting and the A500 fits pretty well without much floor mods at all. (just the support on the underside of the tunnel over the trans needs trimmed.
            With 273 rear gears the car runs at 80mph and 2,100 RPMs and gets pretty much exactly 25mpg out on the open hiway.

            H series transmissions (1995 and older) are hydraulic controlled and only need three wires connected to activate OD and lockup, where the E series (96 and up) are fully computer controlled and would need an aftermarket controller and all the required sensors for the computer to know what's needed and when for shifts and kickdowns.

            With the H series adjustable pressure switches connected to the governor hydraulic pressure port can control shifts determined by road speed.
            I have my pressure switches set to have OD come in at 60mph and lockup at 75 since the main hiway speeds here are 75 and I usually run about 80-85.
            With the pressure switch shifting lockup drops out when I get below 75, and OD drops out at 60.

            Been running this combo for a couple of years now and it's been flawless.
            I can give some help on this little at a time here and there if needed.

            A500OD.jpg

            UnderHood.JPG

            ShifterArt.jpg

            73Swinger.jpg
             
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            Comments inside the quote;click to expand
            You popped the clutch........ with something that has planetaries in it ......... I'm more than a little,confused,lol.
            It sounds more like a cluster-pin in a 4 speed which is perhaps 8 or 9 inches long. Then the planetaries of which you speak would perhaps correspond to the mainshaft gears.
            In any case there is no .75x6 shaft in a TorqueFlite.
            So I'm going with A833 if there are 4 gears in it, and A230 if a 3-gear. This makes the most sense to me.
            If that is true and that trans wore out the cluster pin to 50%, that would be highly unusual;
            unless the needle rollers got shattered,also highly unusual,
            or if someone assembled it with an incorrect number of rollers in there, easy for a newbe to do..
            In any case either of these transmissions when correctly assembled will take anything your Street-SBM can dish out.
            But I wouldn't re-use that particular manual trans. Since it wore out the cluster pin, all the gears have been running at an angle and digging the corners into eachother. They will probably be very noisy and IMO will shed teeth when pushed too hard, especially at whatever end the pin was worn out at. And furthermore, if the case is aluminum, then the front hole is probably egg-shaped, and once that starts, it's all over for that trans.
             
            Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            If you want to run the A500 automatic transmission, Treblig has got his de-bugged, just follow the recipe.

            If you want to run a 4-gear manual trans, you have several options, any of which will easily take anything your 360 can dish out. You gotcher basic A833 with a 2.66 low, or the early one with a 3.09 low. And then you got the 3.09low, 3+1, overdrive box. Each of these is best-suited to a particular application, so the rest of the combo plays a very significant role.
            Here are some examples,
            >the 3+1 is best suited, IMO, to a torquey low-rpm, stockish type engine, or one with lots of cylinder pressure.
            >The 3.09 low works really well in a combo that has a soft bottom end, like a 318 @7.8Scr with a 340 cam. But you have to pay attention to second gear with that one.
            >The 2.66 works for justabout everything else.
            Most of these will need to be matched to your application with rear gears.
            For instance, the 3.09lows do not need 4.30 rears, even with soggy 318s. A hi-compression 360 will be happy with a 2.66 box and 3.55s, and even less in some/many applications.
            If you want to run a hiway gear, then the 3.09 lows come into play.
            And the overdrive box can make fabulous fuel mileage with an engine built to do that. But you can't make a silk-purse out of a 292 cammed 318 at 7.8Scr no how. Some combos are best left on the drawing board.Or better yet, just never even dreamed up.
             
            Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            I do seriously appreciate your finding me that tranny. Unfortunately I can't do that kind of work myself and a garage would probably charge me out the wazoo to do that kind of work. I like your set up though. That is pretty dang awesome, 25mpg!!! Wow. I was getting 11-12 with my 360, 650 Holley 4150, and 3:55's behind a 727. It was a little modified also, not much, but a little. I decided to go with the Blue Print Engine's 408LA with a 727 from them as well. I can handle the poor mileage if it's worth the ride, know what I mean? I would really like to get the A500, but I don't know where to get one for one thing, but modifying things would present a problem for me.

            Thanks again,
            Bob
             
          • TrailBeast

            TrailBeast AKA Mopars4us on Youtube

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            I almost doubt you could find someone to do it at all.
            A 408 sure would benefit from lower R's though.

            Watching the internet I saw that the OD option should produce about a 40% increase in fuel economy, and it came out pretty darn close to that.
            My old 318 with the original 904 got about 17mpg at it's best.

            I totally know what you mean about being worth the ride.:D
             
          • 70DusterBob

            70DusterBob Well-Known Member

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            Ohhhh, Let me start off by saying I don't communicate super well. I tend to leave important details out, like I meant the rear end gears. I think, maybe they are referred to as spider gears???? IDK I uploaded a picture below.

            I'm going with the 408LA rather high performance, not like a drag engine, but it's pretty good from Blue Print Engines. I kind of have to go with the 727 and 3:55's right now. I want to see how bad the mileage is and if I can tweak it a little.

            I do appreciate your two posts here. The one explaining the gearing and tranny combinations was very helpful. And you are right, if the poor mileage is worth the ride, then I should be okay, I just can't accelerate too fast or I will go sideways, not that that's not fun too, lol?

            But yeah, check out this shaft. It had plenty of lube but it wore this badly. Do you suppose this was due strictly to high mileage? The rear end had come out of a JY, so there is no telling who did what to it before I had it.

            Thanks!

            Planetary Gears.JPG
             
          • AJ/FormS

            AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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            If it came out with those gears on it then;IDK what caused that. Those spider gear teeth look almost new.
            I've seen a lotta rearend carnage since 1972 but I haven't ever seen that combination.Put a SureGrip in it and that will never happen again
            What's a JY?
            The smallest rearend that will live behind a 408 is a Mopar 8.75, and it should be a clutch-type 4-spider Trac-Loc . Unless..... of course......... you got skinny tires. But I don't see the point of 408 plus skinny tires. That's just a recipe for disaster. And a big old embarrassment when a big-tired 360 throws dirt on your hood. If you peg-leg your rear, it won't be long before the crosspin retaining pin gives up the ghost and the pin launches somewhere; hopefully not into the gas tank, cuz it might be super hot. Remember when peg-legging, the spinning axle is doing double what the speedO says! And the oil temp is rapidly rising, cuz there just ain't a lot of it in there.And if you happen to be going around a corner some of it may not even be in the sump.
            Sideways is the whole point of a 408 isn't it? Just remember skinny tires don't brake when going sideways. They just slide and slide and slide 'til you hit something.
             
            Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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