Anyone install Edlebrock aluminum heads ?

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. pearljam724

    pearljam724 Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Local Time:
    10:21 AM
    I completely agree. It’s 8-10 factors. A crossover is enemy #2. Ethanol is enemy #1. But, as you stated. There are several things we can due to help address the issue. I prefer to address them. Hence, the Air Gap.
     
  2. pearljam724

    pearljam724 Active Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Local Time:
    10:21 AM
    Yes, a valley pan does as you speak. They are popular on big blocks. But, I’ve never seen them made for small blocks. I’ve never seen intake gaskets that block them either. Not saying someone out there doesn’t make them. A valley pan works. But, a gasket that covers a crossover is worthless. In short time, it will rip through. I think that’s why they only make valley pans that block them. I’m not in favor of either. They both will fail in short time. Same as, blocking it with a tin can.
    Thank you. Yes, I don’t know a lot about torque converters . The car will rev through the gears to 3500 - 4k rpm from a stop. If I give it the beans, lol ! Not 2200 as you stated. That’s a big difference in reference to a low compression engine. I don’t know much about torque converters in reference to it being an improvement or not to one case scenario or another. I understand enough. Torque converters, not so much. Lol !
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  3. toolmanmike

    toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    43,591
    Likes Received:
    26845
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Location:
    Iowa
    Local Time:
    9:21 AM
    Valley pans on big blocks are popular? They were designed that way. Big block intakes don't block off the valley. The pan must be used to seal off the open valley. You need to go back to studying. We are wasting our time here. I'm out of here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Cudafever

      Cudafever Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      3,209
      Likes Received:
      736
      Joined:
      Sep 27, 2009
      Local Time:
      8:21 AM
      You should read what AJ wrote Many Times over!!!!


      It's all good info even though people give him crap for it.
      And Now i know that it is a B body i say go with a Gear Vender and 4:10 gears.....you can have your cake and eat it too......It just cost money$$$$
      If i was ever to put my E-body back on the street. I would keep my 4:56 gears and buy a GV!

      In a A body it requires a floor modification........B/E don't.

      Take a look at this link
      GV are tough, You won't break it with simple maintenance.
      I will also help to make sence of all the ratios that AJ is talking about.
      look it over and read threw it well.

      Dodge 3-Speed Auto - Gearvendors
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • yellow rose

        yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

        Messages:
        18,789
        Likes Received:
        14874
        Joined:
        Jun 19, 2015
        Location:
        Living on the razors edge
        Local Time:
        7:21 AM

        Not a valley pan. It looks like a regular intake gasket that has a round or similar shaped hole where the heat crossover is. They provide the correct shape piece of stainless steel to fit that hole.

        Put the gasket on like normal and put the piece of SS in the hole and bolt the intake on.

        Done.
         
        • Agree Agree x 3
        • Cal Tonsley

          Cal Tonsley Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          100
          Likes Received:
          121
          Joined:
          Mar 11, 2017
          Location:
          Australia
          Local Time:
          1:51 AM
          Yes, the “Cage of Experience” traps a lot of people!
           
        • AJ/FormS

          AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          16,872
          Likes Received:
          5440
          Joined:
          Jan 19, 2014
          Location:
          South-Central Manitoba,Canada, 900ftelevation
          Local Time:
          9:21 AM
          Well sure it will rev to 4k but what does it rev to just before the car moves and before the tires begin to spin.
          The stock 360 should actually rev to about 5000 maybe a lil more with the stock cam kit.
          My David Vizard Book claims that just increasing the Scr from 8/1 to 11/1 with no accompanying changes, is good for ~5.2% more power. For a 300hp engine, this might mean 15hp at peak. This is about equal to one size bigger cam. But whereas the compression will progressively increase power right off idle, all thru the rpm band; the cam, ALONE, will usually post the biggest increase over a narrow rpm band of about 1500, and usually loses power at the lower rpms. So if you need power at 20 mph, a bigger cam is 100% the wrong choice.
          Whereas more cylinder pressure is 100% the right choice, until the pressure causes detonation to set in.
          But the best choice will be a higher stall TC, followed very closely be more rear gear.

          A torque convertor is more or less, just an automatic clutch. Except you cannot change the hard cut-in point, after the install. Whereas the clutch can be slipped to achieve any rpm you like, until the engine blows up.
          The TC has the additional advantage , in that, it is able to multiply the incoming torque to some higher number than what is entering into it from the crank. At zero mph, this multiplier can be quite high. But as the car begins to move, this effect diminishes rather rapidly. And then stabilizes at somewhere between ~5 to 8% or so. At 5% it is worth a half a gear size, cuz Mopar gave us rear gear ratios in steps of 10% at the hiway-gear end, to 5% among the race gears, but threw in a half-gear at 3.73s..
          What this means to you, is that if your engine inputs 300 ftlbs into the TC at whatever rpm, then at WOT, it may be that 300x1.05 =315 ftlbs goes into the trans. It could be a lot more at zero mph. Now 15 extra ftlbs might not sound like much ..... but if it hangs on to 5250 rpm,then that is still 15 horsepower, about equal to one cam size, so maybe the number is deceiving to the eye/brain, but the trap speed will measure it.
          This is also why factory manual trans cars usually got 3.55s to autos with 3.23s; cuz at WOT the manual trans car needed the 10% extra gear to compete off the line with the auto car. And then once moving, the 4-gear had a double whammy advantage of slightly more rear gear, and a much narrower power-band requirement. But with the advent of modern hi-stall TCs it looks like 4-gear drag-cars are now sorta passe.
           
          Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
          • Like Like x 1
          • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
          • Kendog 170

            Kendog 170 Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            360
            Likes Received:
            141
            Joined:
            Mar 10, 2016
            Location:
            Tewksbury Ma.
            Local Time:
            10:21 AM
            Also if your using the stock dual field alternator you may have to shim it and pulleys a smidge. The single field alt. you wont.
             
          • Cudafever

            Cudafever Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            3,209
            Likes Received:
            736
            Joined:
            Sep 27, 2009
            Local Time:
            8:21 AM
            converter stall!
            left foot on brake, right foot pushing the skinny pedal to the floor. When the tach stop moving or the back tire start turning.........That's your STALL!

            Vapor lock?
            have found many ways to combat that.
            First and foremost! make sure the fuel line clip is still holding it to the frame rail next the the headers on the right side! Take a rubber hose 3/8 fuel hose and spit it down the middle and install it were the header are the closes to the fuel line.

            If you have a vent tube in your tank make sure that the end is not plugged with bugs
            Mechanical fuel pumps will heat soak in hot weather and fuel will boil right there.....Make a small air dam so that its being cooled by the road wind.

            As mentioned a heat dam under the carb.

            But the only way to truly fix a vapor lock 100% is a electric fuel pump in the fuel tank area and a FUEL RETURN LINE BACK TO THE TANK.

            When the fuel is being returned back to the tank the fuel has a much harder time vapor locking.
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • Dan s

              Dan s Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              94
              Likes Received:
              54
              Joined:
              Aug 15, 2019
              Location:
              Tennessee
              Local Time:
              10:21 AM
              I’ll say this. I read aj’s post ALOT. I put 3.73 behind a 904a (locking tc 3 speed).lots of fun just playing around but at 55 it was awful. I found a a518 and put it in and the same motor will cruise 70 all day. In town I turn of the od and it still is ALOT of fun.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • Dave_J

                Dave_J Member

                Messages:
                21
                Likes Received:
                17
                Joined:
                Nov 27, 2019
                Location:
                Auburn, WA
                Local Time:
                7:21 AM
                If you want the biggest bump in compression while using the same pistons then taking 0.040" off the deck is better than 0.060 off the heads.

                I̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶d̶s̶ ̶k̶e̶e̶p̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶a̶l̶u̶m̶i̶n̶u̶m̶ ̶w̶i̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶a̶ ̶1̶0̶.̶2̶:̶1̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶I̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶u̶m̶i̶n̶u̶m̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶m̶b̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶.̶.̶.̶ (I've just been told I am dead wrong here.) ;)

                This last set of small block Edelbrock heads I just got are HORRENDOUS!!! The core shift makes the outer exhaust ports slightly into the gasket on the outsides. Then the amount of casting parting lines and the BOOGERS in the ports. The pressed in seats have about 1/16 to 3/32's ridge on the intakes that must be blended down.

                My 2 cents worth... Spend that $2500 for the heads on a better cam and springs. Clean up the iron heads with just a slightly smaller than gasket match and blend the pockets after having the seats cut at a 3 angle 35/45/70 degrees. That bottom throat cut of 70 degrees will show how bad the pockets under the valves are.

                There are 100,000's of Dodge 3.9 V6 and 5.2 V8 Cargo vans out there with non computer controlled 3 speed lock-up A998-A999's. These have the lower 2.74 first and 1.55 second gear. Put a small 'Trans-Go' shift kit for the lock-up trans and it will work well behind a warm 360.
                We have a local torque converter shop that will cut that A999's converter open and add more stall. And he will replace the lock-up clutch to the A618 Diesel truck clutch.
                Your 2.94:1 rear with the 2.74 first gear is like having 3.29:1's.... And compound that with the looser stall converter.....
                 
                Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 11:55 PM
              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

                Messages:
                18,789
                Likes Received:
                14874
                Joined:
                Jun 19, 2015
                Location:
                Living on the razors edge
                Local Time:
                7:21 AM


                Paragraph 2 is dead wrong. We thrashed this out here somewhere. The materiel the cylinder head is cast from is of ZERO consequence when in comes to heat rejection and compression ratio.
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • 69_340_GTS

                  69_340_GTS Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  3,624
                  Likes Received:
                  1529
                  Joined:
                  Jul 11, 2014
                  Location:
                  Torrington, CT
                  Local Time:
                  10:21 AM
                  Plus, if you have headers (which means there is no exhaust crossover flapper) very little exhaust will flow thru the intake manifold. And certainly not with enough pressure to blow out a block-off intake gasket. The stainless steel block-off plates that come with some intake gaskets will last forever (with headers, or exhaust crossover flapper blocked open). Or get some .020" stainless steel and make your own block-off plates.
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Dave_J

                    Dave_J Member

                    Messages:
                    21
                    Likes Received:
                    17
                    Joined:
                    Nov 27, 2019
                    Location:
                    Auburn, WA
                    Local Time:
                    7:21 AM
                    Back to the OP's question.
                    Will bolting these out of the box Edelbrock RPM heads add any power over the stock Iron ones? The answer is in a nutshell, yes. But with zero other mods the power gains will not be there as much. So for just $2500, is it the best bang for the bucks? IMHO NO. The OP does not know what is inside as far as pistons or cam. These MUST be found out before throwing cash at it. I think he will be disappointed when his 8.2:1 360 runs like a dog with these big heads with no cylinder pressure.

                    These Mopar forums are a good place to separate the Bench Racers. You all offer some good advice with many different opinions on how it will work. But you can not make someone follow this information if they keep listening to their bench racer friends.

                    The Cam may be the heart of the engine but the heads are its throat and arse hole. It should be designed as a team and not as a "One item" fix.
                     
                  • yellow rose

                    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

                    Messages:
                    18,789
                    Likes Received:
                    14874
                    Joined:
                    Jun 19, 2015
                    Location:
                    Living on the razors edge
                    Local Time:
                    7:21 AM

                    The heads aren't "big" for one.

                    For two, I'll take a head that everyone and their mother thinks is too "big" every day of the week and get the correct cam in and make more power every time.

                    A puny, choked cylinder head is a power killer. The OE heads are too small for most everything.
                     
                    • Agree Agree x 1
                    • Dave_J

                      Dave_J Member

                      Messages:
                      21
                      Likes Received:
                      17
                      Joined:
                      Nov 27, 2019
                      Location:
                      Auburn, WA
                      Local Time:
                      7:21 AM
                      Again, we still know squat about what the OP has. My son bought a 360 years ago for $50 and it had 1966 273 heads on it. Seller said he did not think it had been apart.

                      I don't have the cc data for heads handy. But I know that the bone stock 360 head flows not so well. With 1.88 In and 1.60 Ex they are in my opinion SMALL. These RPM's are 1.71cc and 2.02/1.60 and the valves are back cut and have nicked down stems in the ports. So, in my opinion these RPM's are BIG vs 100% stock iron 360 2Bbl heads.

                      Putting these RPM's on a bone stock 360 2bb engine with a 2bb cam is not the best bang for the buck. A better bang for the bucks spent would to put a 75 Horse shot of NOS on it and it will not affect his cruse on the freeway. But this could easily be a BANG if the OP were to put some 250 shot pills in that system.
                      YMMV.
                       
                      Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 8:43 PM
                    • pearljam724

                      pearljam724 Active Member

                      Messages:
                      41
                      Likes Received:
                      14
                      Joined:
                      Aug 29, 2019
                      Location:
                      Pennsylvania
                      Local Time:
                      10:21 AM
                      Thanks Dave. That’s the kind of stuff I’m looking to hear. I have a rare convertible, therefore I don’t want a torque monster to tear it apart. I like high gearing that I have for interstates. I’m capable of doing everything myself. Therefore, I’m looking for the right recipe for mechanical engine upgrades I can install myself. Rather than taking it to an engine shop and that guy charging me thousands for 90 percent of work I can do myself. Only difference, an engine shop knows the recipes I need, I don’t. My engine currently runs incredibly well. It will smoke a bone stock 360 and has a lot of high end torque. It constantly builds more power at highest revs and never flattens out. Thats a good sign of a well tuned engine. But, im looking for an additional 100 more hp or less because this engine pulls a B body, not an A.
                      I’ve done a lot of tweeks to the tranny, shift point and pump wise and the car feels like it has 100 more hp now. Than when I originally bought it. Tell me more about shift kits. All I know is you replace some springs and a valve in the valve body ? What results can I expect from installing one ? Thank you
                       
                      Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 8:44 PM
                    • Kendog 170

                      Kendog 170 Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      360
                      Likes Received:
                      141
                      Joined:
                      Mar 10, 2016
                      Location:
                      Tewksbury Ma.
                      Local Time:
                      10:21 AM
                      I personally don't like shift kits on a driver. Stock tranny's shift well. With a shift kit you get a lot of hard banging shifts when your driving normal. Drove me nuts. Just my opinion.
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 2
                      • pearljam724

                        pearljam724 Active Member

                        Messages:
                        41
                        Likes Received:
                        14
                        Joined:
                        Aug 29, 2019
                        Location:
                        Pennsylvania
                        Local Time:
                        10:21 AM
                        All you have to do is adjust your pump pressure to your liking. You can do that 3-4 separate ways. After adjusting your pump pressure in a certain range. From a stop, you can really wind out the gears in an automatic. It will feel like, the car has 2 or 3 times more power. The car will accelerate much faster when needed. If adjusted properly, simply don’t push the accelerator as far down to the floor or let off accelerator a little and it will shift sooner and more smooth. If it’s, adjusted in that sweet spot.
                        Clutch plates are subject to faster wear if shifts are smooth. I have mine adjusted in a few areas that allows me to have smooth low speed shifts or very high rpm shifts from a stop. The car will shift like a standard if I want. Shifting at very high rpm from a stop. Depends how far I choose and continue to push the accelerator during different circumstances.
                        I thought that’s what shift kits did. But, wasn’t sure because I never messed with one, until you explained it. Sounds like a waste of money. When you can easily make 2 of 3 adjustments without tearing anything apart and accomplish the same thing for free. Unless, I’m missing something about shift kits ?
                         
                        Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 7:39 PM
                      • Wyrmrider

                        Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

                        Messages:
                        1,960
                        Likes Received:
                        902
                        Joined:
                        Sep 5, 2016
                        Location:
                        los angeles
                        Local Time:
                        7:21 AM
                        guys
                        I've been involved in developing Transgo reprogramming kits for years
                        using my vehicles as a guinea pig
                        LOTS of R and D mostly to improve durability (Gil said you "can't win if you break") as the above poster correctly observes most kits up the line pressure and shift too hard- completely unnecessary.
                        Gill's patent for the anti-drainback, check fluid in Park valve has expired and many have copied
                        and methods for drilling and/or filing the valve body have changed over the years
                        Anyone want to ask me about TF OD fire away
                        Incidentally Transgo has just come out with a separator plate for the TF-OD trans which allows "back to second" as well as "back to low" while mostly for the Diesel Crowd it really works well
                        great when you want to hold in second coming down a hill or preventing an upshift when towing up a long slow grade- there is NO way to do this without a separator plate and patent is pending on the ingenious design
                         
                        • Thanks! Thanks! x 2
                        • Dave_J

                          Dave_J Member

                          Messages:
                          21
                          Likes Received:
                          17
                          Joined:
                          Nov 27, 2019
                          Location:
                          Auburn, WA
                          Local Time:
                          7:21 AM
                          The whole problem with shift kits is the installer thinks "If some is good, MORE is better". Back in the 70's (I was 19 years old) I did my 904 to B&M's Full Race mods. I got 2 tickets and over 10 warnings when my Dart would "CHIRP" the tires going from 1st to 2nd.

                          I use Gil's TransGo kits. They have always been good. When I use a kit I do all the mods but keep it to the lower mods and never 'STRIP' setting. Yes I do up the line pressures some and drill out the plate as the instructions say to. But MORE is not always better.
                           
                        • pearljam724

                          pearljam724 Active Member

                          Messages:
                          41
                          Likes Received:
                          14
                          Joined:
                          Aug 29, 2019
                          Location:
                          Pennsylvania
                          Local Time:
                          10:21 AM
                          Said well. It makes so much more sense to adjust your actual pump pressure. You can tweak the adjustments in minutes to your liking or driving circumstances and go back and tweak them again in minutes if you’re not happy. Rather than buying, taking a lot of time tearing a valve body apart and installing a shift kit. Only to find it’s too harsh or you want more for your driving conditions.
                          Adjusting spring pressure on the actual pump is where happiness is made. After pan is off. Takes 10 seconds to tweak pressure one way or the other.
                           
                        • Dave_J

                          Dave_J Member

                          Messages:
                          21
                          Likes Received:
                          17
                          Joined:
                          Nov 27, 2019
                          Location:
                          Auburn, WA
                          Local Time:
                          7:21 AM
                          OK, just playing with just line pressures can cause more issues than good.

                          Shift kits if used correctly will FIX many issues in some of these transmissions.

                          My point above is that sometimes a reader will take snippets of what is posted and read into what is being said and ignoring most of the important stuff.
                          Every TransGo kit has a well developed set of steps. You should not just take a little information and ignore the rest. Some of the steps are not easily reversed.

                          We are now on page 4 and I don't know if any of the above posts have helped. I am confused to what is needed.
                           
                        • Wyrmrider

                          Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

                          Messages:
                          1,960
                          Likes Received:
                          902
                          Joined:
                          Sep 5, 2016
                          Location:
                          los angeles
                          Local Time:
                          7:21 AM
                          well said dave J
                          I was not going to mention shift kits but Art Carr's early kits would tear the lining off the clutches- especially when using trick shift or type F fluid
                           
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • Cudafever

                            Cudafever Well-Known Member

                            Messages:
                            3,209
                            Likes Received:
                            736
                            Joined:
                            Sep 27, 2009
                            Local Time:
                            8:21 AM
                            My TransGo experience was not a good one. My inexperiance not the kit!
                            This was 25+ year ago and the problem was more me, not understanding the importance of the kickdown linkage and it's adjustment.
                             
                            • Like Like x 1
                            1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                              By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.