Anyone use HP Tuners (or maybe others) and can share some maps?

[Map63Vette]

I've been on a mission to make my Megasquirt setup run as similar as I can to a stock ECU and I think I'm making some decent progress. The more I get into it though, the more I realize I'm missing info and specs on factory parts that would be useful to get things really polished and optimized. That being said, I'm hoping maybe someone out there uses HP Tuners (or maybe others like Diablosport/SCT/etc if they have them) and might be able to pull some screenshots of tables off stock tunes I could use as a reference. I have found some stock VE and spark tables for an 06 5.7 on the web before that I used as a good base to get things going on my car. What I'm currently looking for now is more info on the ignition system (and maybe still some injector info if it's in there). I'd like to see an ignition dwell table so I can get my coils dialed in better and make sure I'm getting the right amount of spark out of my system. I'd also still be interested in a factory table for injector dwell/lag/latency/deadtime/whatever they want to call it. I'm using stock injectors and coils, so thinking that stuff should translate straight across fairly well. I found one oscilloscope shot of a guy doing a test on some old 6.1 coils, but it looked like he was only energizing them with 5V, whereas they run off 12V on the car, so I don't think the values there are of much use to me. At the moment I'm just using the standard "safe" default MS value of ~3 ms, but it would be nice to know if I'm leaving ignition power on the table or reducing their lifespan by running them too long.

 

[Dragonbat13]

Chris Ward is an underground hemi tuner. Out of elpaso Texas.

I don't remember where I got that information.

 

[Map63Vette]

As it turns out, the HP Tuners software comes with some base maps as part of the install. Coincidentally enough, the one 3G Hemi one is from a 2006 300C, so that worked out fairly well for me. Interestingly enough though, I didn't find any kind of information on coil dwell in there. Seems like it must just be baked in and not adjustable, or it's hiding somewhere else. Not a big deal though, still got a lot of useful information out of it.

 

[Edsrt]

As it turns out, the HP Tuners software comes with some base maps as part of the install. Coincidentally enough, the one 3G Hemi one is from a 2006 300C, so that worked out fairly well for me. Interestingly enough though, I didn't find any kind of information on coil dwell in there. Seems like it must just be baked in and not adjustable, or it's hiding somewhere else. Not a big deal though, still got a lot of useful information out of it.

Are you running the gold box?.if you are it should have came with the software you need. Or you should be able to call megasquirt or efi source to help you

 

[Map63Vette]

Are you running the gold box?.if you are it should have came with the software you need. Or you should be able to call megasquirt or efi source to help you

No, my setup has been several things over the years. I originally bought it as an MS2/Extra that was taken off a 340. A couple years back I upgraded it to an MS3X, but it's still the old aluminum enclosure v3.57 board, nothing like the nice new ones with the sealed connectors. I've tuned it from scratch about three times over now as I keep trying to add and change things. Started off running it fuel only with an MSD box to run ignition, but moved the ignition control over when I upgraded to the MS3X card. Then I just stared adding features for the fun of it since the computer supported it, like traction control, launch control, etc. At this point it's my daily driver, so I'm really just trying to fine tune it to have really nice startup and warmup characteristics and good mileage and drivability. I don't think that's the kind of stuff that most aftermarket ECUs care about as they are more race oriented, but I could be wrong. I would be curious to see what the gold box tune looks like though just to compare it to mine.

 

[racerjoe]

I'd love to see a timing map for the early 5.7 if you are willing to share. My understanding is the factory ECU had two maps, one for normal driving and one for WOT. Like you, I have the old school aluminum case MS3X. I actually built it too. Pretty sure my eyes wouldn't allow me to do all that board level soldering these days... I've considered upgrading to their newest products, but I don't have a valid reason to do so. I do however, want more inputs so I can install a 3 axis G meter.

 

[Map63Vette]

I'd love to see a timing map for the early 5.7 if you are willing to share. My understanding is the factory ECU had two maps, one for normal driving and one for WOT. Like you, I have the old school aluminum case MS3X. I actually built it too. Pretty sure my eyes wouldn't allow me to do all that board level soldering these days... I've considered upgrading to their newest products, but I don't have a valid reason to do so. I do however, want more inputs so I can install a 3 axis G meter.

Sure! I don't have a problem posting up what I've got when I get home later today. I'm actually more or less running the stock ignition maps on my car now with some slight tweaks around idle for my cam. My most recent change was trying to emulate the "closed loop / open loop" that the OEM setup does, even though it's technically always closed loop for me since I have a wideband O2 sensor. I have mine set up to switch tables at ~80% throttle and it's pretty noticeable. I do think that it might be missing a little of the nuance of switching that the OEM setup has, but it seems to work well enough. I know they have a tip in feature that pulls some timing on throttle hits, but to my knowledge there's no real good way to implement that on the MS. Think of it kind of like accelerator pump control, but for ignition (though it takes timing away instead of adding it in most cases).

I know what you mean about swapping units too. I've debated going to one of the sealed solutions several times as it would be nice to move all of my engine stuff into the engine bay instead of the passenger compartment as it would drastically cut down on the number of cables I have to put through the firewall. I'm actually planning to put a G meter on mine for the fun of it if I ever get around to building my center console though. You can do it on the old setup via CAN fairly easily. I'm currently running GPS into mine via my Raspberry Pi. I use the Pi for navigation already, so I just piped the signal into the MS while I was at it for the fun of it. Was planning to do the same with an accelerometer once I get it installed. I'm essentially just emulating a JB Perf board with GPS, RTC, and accelerometers. You would need something to take the signal from the accelerometer and convert it to CAN, but you could do that with a cheap Arduino or Pi Pico or something for just a couple of bucks.

 

[Map63Vette]

Here's what I've got for timing tables. These are pretty much ripped straight off the HP Tuners file and converted to MS. I think I tweaked the rpm column values slightly to line up with my fuel values, but not by much. The left table is the "closed loop" table, or basically cruise values. The right table is the open loop / WOT tables. Take note that the open loop table starts at a fairly high load, though realistically you'd probably only hit the top couple of rows anyway as in my case you have to be over 80% throttle, which pretty much puts you at the top of the table anyway. I made a couple of changes where I idle (<1000 rpm, probably 40-60% load kind of region) to give me a little more stability. I also found I'm getting some reported knock in my 5th gear cruising area (~2500 rpm, 40-50% load) that I just pulled some timing from tonight to see how it does tomorrow. I'm not sure if that's real knock or not as I also just changed the knock window to match the OEM one and I have no idea if my gains are set realistically. I pretty much just left them at 1 as it seemed to report ~20% knock input (I have no good definition for what this is other than "engine noise"), which seems to be pretty typical. Actual spark reduction doesn't happen until over 60% knock or so if I remember my tune correctly.

PM me if you want the tables in the MS export .table format and I can send them over so you don't have to type it out if you want to try them. Generally I'm fairly happy with these (other than the potential knock issue, though that could very well be my knock settings or the fact that I run 87 octane). The car runs pretty hard when I get into the WOT table. My engine is a stock rotating assembly, but an Inertia Motorsports SRT Max Plus cam, an Indy ModMan intake, and TTI headers. I've read that those kind of mods don't tend to require timing changes as much as fueling though, so that's one reason I've tried these "stock" maps.

 

[racerjoe]

Here's what I've got for timing tables. These are pretty much ripped straight off the HP Tuners file and converted to MS. I think I tweaked the rpm column values slightly to line up with my fuel values, but not by much. The left table is the "closed loop" table, or basically cruise values. The right table is the open loop / WOT tables. Take note that the open loop table starts at a fairly high load, though realistically you'd probably only hit the top couple of rows anyway as in my case you have to be over 80% throttle, which pretty much puts you at the top of the table anyway. I made a couple of changes where I idle (<1000 rpm, probably 40-60% load kind of region) to give me a little more stability. I also found I'm getting some reported knock in my 5th gear cruising area (~2500 rpm, 40-50% load) that I just pulled some timing from tonight to see how it does tomorrow. I'm not sure if that's real knock or not as I also just changed the knock window to match the OEM one and I have no idea if my gains are set realistically. I pretty much just left them at 1 as it seemed to report ~20% knock input (I have no good definition for what this is other than "engine noise"), which seems to be pretty typical. Actual spark reduction doesn't happen until over 60% knock or so if I remember my tune correctly.

View attachment 1716392796

PM me if you want the tables in the MS export .table format and I can send them over so you don't have to type it out if you want to try them. Generally I'm fairly happy with these (other than the potential knock issue, though that could very well be my knock settings or the fact that I run 87 octane). The car runs pretty hard when I get into the WOT table. My engine is a stock rotating assembly, but an Inertia Motorsports SRT Max Plus cam, an Indy ModMan intake, and TTI headers. I've read that those kind of mods don't tend to require timing changes as much as fueling though, so that's one reason I've tried these "stock" maps.

Thanks! I'll compare to what I have. I am spinning mine higher than this table goes. My rev limiter is set at 6800RPM now that I have some aftermarket pushrods. I was limiting it to 6500 with the stockers. It pulls all the way to the limiter too. It is also a stock bottom end with new rings that I added some gap to. I also hand ported the heads and my cam is larger than yours (Cam Motion Titan 2). I'm still running the stock 5.7 intake.

 

[Map63Vette]

I have my hard limiter set at 6500. I believe the MS will extrapolate values beyond the table, but agreed that it's better to define them if you can. Regarding my knock issue, I think it's most likely a sensor setup issue. I've pulled a couple degrees of timing and just put a tank of 91 octane in it this morning and it's still tripping the light I have. The engine does feel a bit funny in that rpm range, but I think it's probably more of a resonance issue in the mounting and maybe some drivetrain stuff thrown in. The logs aren't showing super well defined hard spikes over the baseline noise, though there are some spikier bits in there. I probably need to run an SD card log as those are higher speed and maybe try to induce some at idle or something to get a better idea of what it looks like in the data in the safest way I can with stock pistons.