Apples to apples?..

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  1. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Is apples to apples even possible in a perfect world?..
    We know that not one of us is running the same exact identical combination. Some of us are running the same heads or the same carburetor or the same cam. But generally other things will be different. Let alone the car that it's in the traction that it's getting through its particular set up whether it be SS Springs caltracs ladder bars etc. Let alone transmission kind and internal setup...
    Let alone the conditions of the day...
    And let's not forget goals.. Street? Strip? Street/strip? Strip only?...
    And another thing was your apples to apples tested on a dyno? And absolutely everything else the same? Was it seat of the pants?...
     
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    • TT5.9mag

      TT5.9mag Two atmospheres are better than one

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      Have you pushed the damn button yet??? Thought I’d derail your thread for you.
       
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      • RammerJammer75

        RammerJammer75 Well-Known Member

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        I would say no, because you could build two cars with the same engine/trans setup, suspension and drive-train, same weight, driver skill, ignition, etc. and they could still come out wanting different timing, different jetting, different shift points, suspension setups and so on. Those are my thoughts.
         
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        • Murray

          Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I prefer Granny Smith's.
           
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          • abdywgn

            abdywgn dismantler

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            guessin' apples to apples would mean identical builds by two different builders. THAT would be a good article for Hot Rod or so. Same car,parts. Onlt assembly and the "rub" would be different. Is that organic or otherwise?
             
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            • DFX 340 Duster

              DFX 340 Duster FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              I would say yes that you can compare apples to apples since nature itself doesn’t produce identical apples. So I believe that one can compare all engines of a specific displacement. The differences will be what is done with each of them during the build and the components used.
               
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              • RAT ROD AL

                RAT ROD AL I know just enough to be dangerous FABO Gold Member

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                Most the pro cars in the NHRA run within a few thousandths of each other.. I'd say that is pretty much apple's to apple's.
                 
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                • TT5.9mag

                  TT5.9mag Two atmospheres are better than one

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                  Or apple to apple as there really is only two pro stock engine builders any more.
                   
                • RAT ROD AL

                  RAT ROD AL I know just enough to be dangerous FABO Gold Member

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                  With different chassis, crew chief and driver. All still a few thousandths difference.
                   
                • j par

                  j par Well-hung Member

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                  So when you say specific displacement should we just take this scenario for instance... Like a 383 bored out to a 408 and a small block 408 Stroker... Wouldn't a specific cam benefit one over the other? Wouldn't a specific carburetor benefit one over the other?.. and so on and so on?..
                   
                • j par

                  j par Well-hung Member

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                  B3 geometry correction in one and not the other....???..
                   
                • RammerJammer75

                  RammerJammer75 Well-Known Member

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                  In my opinion, that's not apples to apples. I think I know what you're getting at though.
                   
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                  • j par

                    j par Well-hung Member

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                    This whole conversation stems for me from the trick flow head thread...
                    What a particular part does for one car may not do it for another given car.. Their stroke cam suspension car weight gearing transmission whether it be automatic four speed 904 or 727 ...
                     
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                    • RammerJammer75

                      RammerJammer75 Well-Known Member

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                      Hot damn I knew it lol
                       
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                      • j par

                        j par Well-hung Member

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                        Well I didn't want to derail too much of their technical talk but I do like to get the point out there that apples to apples is it very far stretch...
                         
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                        • RammerJammer75

                          RammerJammer75 Well-Known Member

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                          I understand, and I see your points. I think if the valve job is good or can be cleaned up cheap, the Speedmasters are the way to go for a very mild street engine that won't see the track or might see it once every blue moon. The Trick Flows are geared towards the more serious street/strip engines. What kills me on both heads are when people don't build a decent combo to compliment the heads, then they automatically blame the heads and say they're crap.
                           
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                          • flyfish

                            flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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                            This is what I’ve been saying for years, everything is combo dependent. When someone would ask if a specific part worked well you always have to know the context of where that part is and what parts are surrounding it.
                             
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                            • gdrill

                              gdrill OK, now what??? Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                              Apple pie without cheese, is like a kiss without a squeeze!
                               
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                              • j par

                                j par Well-hung Member

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                                I know that rhymes good but I want vanilla bean with my apple pie...
                                 
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                                • j par

                                  j par Well-hung Member

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                                  I think a great example of what you're talking about and I agree with is 318 will run doing out of the box speedmasters on his relatively stock build and my out-of-the-box speed Masters on my relatively custom build.. there's just no comparing the results...
                                   
                                • Oldmanmopar

                                  Oldmanmopar Going left turning right FABO Gold Member

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                                  Tungsten Disulfide. Makes a motor apples to apples seem like a grapes to a watermelon. Those of you who know get what I am saying.
                                   
                                • pittsburghracer

                                  pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                  I agree with the Granny Smiths and I like some sea salt on mine. As far as cars and engines good luck with that. Even if the engines were exactly built to the same specs and cars exactly the same if you ran one in Ohio and one at an east or west Coast super track the Ohio car would be .25-.30 slower.
                                   
                                • MOPARMAGA

                                  MOPARMAGA Well-Known Member

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                                  Is everyone aware that the beavers anal gland is where the 1st (artificial) vanilla flavoring came from, imagine that trapper who went up to the tree, put his finger in that slime & put it in his mouth....golley that's some good shit.
                                   
                                • famous bob

                                  famous bob mopar misfit

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                                  there is no pro stock any more , its chevy pro , all bought and paid for by G M chevrolet division !!
                                   
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                                  • Cudafever

                                    Cudafever Well-Known Member

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                                    Pro stock Dodge was like the apple in apple pie. All the rest was just filler for me.
                                    when the apple was removed........the filler just wasn't any fun any more.

                                    Watch a couple races last year and even though it is automatically recorded ever episode..........I haven't watched a single one this year.
                                     
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