vallianted
Well-Known Member
just wondering are these things worth anything?
Ball and trunnion 4 spd
- Thread starter vallianted
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Beams
Well-Known Member
Last summer I paid $300 for one. Came with a slant 6 flywheel, used but good Made in USA Borg and Beck pressure plate.
Did not include the 3/4 shift fork, or the speedometer and cable. No shift levers or other pieces.
Overall looked to be in great shape. I thought it was a decent deal at the time, but could have been wrong. Was pretty disappointed when I realized I had to buy the shift fork and a couple small pieces.
I’m going to have a conversion driveshaft made in the next couple of weeks. That’s when we’ll really find out about it.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
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if you have one and you're trying to sell it, nobody will think it's worth anything.
if you need one, everybody selling them thinks they're worth a mint.
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
If it came out of a six-cylinder A-body, it's got a deeper first gear (3.09) than the V8 and B-body transmissions (2.66). The other three gears are the same ratios and it's every bit as strong. That low first gear allows for a decent launch with taller axle gears like 2.76, 2.94, or 3.23. The Slant Six gearset is easily identified by a semicircular groove cut around the input shaft just forward of the clutch splines. It was used from 1964-'66 and only in A-bodies to my knowledge, although I have a '67 A-body transmission with it as well. Early production? Swapped years ago? I don't know.
Fun fact: If you have a damaged close-ratio 3.09 input shaft, it's exactly the same as the one used in the aluminum-case overdrive A833 in terms of functionality. The aluminum A833OD input does not have that groove, though. Neither does the input from an iron-case overdrive, but that one will not work. The iron-case overdrives (1975-'77) used a high-helix gearset, so the gear teeth will not mesh correctly. The high-helix OD gearset was the quietest A833 gearset made. Unfortunately, it was also the weakest.
I have the close-ratio 3.09 gearset in my '69 Valiant. In a '68 case. With an A833OD input shaft. It's a mutt, like the rest of the car.
Fun fact: If you have a damaged close-ratio 3.09 input shaft, it's exactly the same as the one used in the aluminum-case overdrive A833 in terms of functionality. The aluminum A833OD input does not have that groove, though. Neither does the input from an iron-case overdrive, but that one will not work. The iron-case overdrives (1975-'77) used a high-helix gearset, so the gear teeth will not mesh correctly. The high-helix OD gearset was the quietest A833 gearset made. Unfortunately, it was also the weakest.
I have the close-ratio 3.09 gearset in my '69 Valiant. In a '68 case. With an A833OD input shaft. It's a mutt, like the rest of the car.
Ironracer
Gearhead
Hell, that's EVERYTHING I HAVE, or need, it's just always been like that for me I can have a pile of cash and I can't find what I want at a good price but if I'm trying to sell something it ain't worth a damn
Beams
Well-Known Member
From everything I’ve read, all 1964-65 a833s (which would use ball and trunion) had the 3.09 first gear. Whether slant six or 273. Of course there’s always time for people to swap gears.If it came out of a six-cylinder A-body, it's got a deeper first gear (3.09) than the V8 and B-body transmissions (2.66). The other three gears are the same ratios and it's every bit as strong. That low first gear allows for a decent launch with taller axle gears like 2.76, 2.94, or 3.23. The Slant Six gearset is easily identified by a semicircular groove cut around the input shaft just forward of the clutch splines. It was used from 1964-'66 and only in A-bodies to my knowledge, although I have a '67 A-body transmission with it as well. Early production? Swapped years ago? I don't know.
Fun fact: If you have a damaged close-ratio 3.09 input shaft, it's exactly the same as the one used in the aluminum-case overdrive A833 in terms of functionality. The aluminum A833OD input does not have that groove, though. Neither does the input from an iron-case overdrive, but that one will not work. The iron-case overdrives (1975-'77) used a high-helix gearset, so the gear teeth will not mesh correctly. The high-helix OD gearset was the quietest A833 gearset made. Unfortunately, it was also the weakest.
I have the close-ratio 3.09 gearset in my '69 Valiant. In a '68 case. With an A833OD input shaft. It's a mutt, like the rest of the car.
I appreciate your creativity. Someday I’ll be doing some swapping with the O/D unit I have.
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
The last ball & trunion 4-speed I bought was a 3.09 unit at a swap meet. I was interested in it because it was bolted to a new QuickTime SFI small-block bellhousing. I knew the guy from several prior swaps; he was asking $500 and wouldn't separate it. I told him I'd come back. When I did, the bell was gone... WTF? He usually wasn't like that.
He said he found out that was the bell he needed to put an A833 behind his early Hemi so he decided to keep it... "But I'll give you a deal on the transmission! $250!" I already had two 3.09 gearsets, so I passed. Walking away, he kept shouting after me "C'mon! You know you want it!" and such. I was about 50' away when he yelled, "Hundred bucks?!" I yelled "SOLD!" and turned around. The complete original A-body Hurst shifter and linkage was still bolted to it.
He said he found out that was the bell he needed to put an A833 behind his early Hemi so he decided to keep it... "But I'll give you a deal on the transmission! $250!" I already had two 3.09 gearsets, so I passed. Walking away, he kept shouting after me "C'mon! You know you want it!" and such. I was about 50' away when he yelled, "Hundred bucks?!" I yelled "SOLD!" and turned around. The complete original A-body Hurst shifter and linkage was still bolted to it.
Beams
Well-Known Member
I have an 8 1/4 rear. I never really looked into length difference between 7 1/4 vs 8 1/4.
I figured that even if I could track down a B&T driveshaft (assuming it fits), it would probably need to be rebuilt. So there’d be cost to purchase (and probably ship) plus rebuild. I didn’t actually do the math, but figured it would be close to a wash.
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
I've learned something today. Thank you.
Curiosity thus roused, I did a little further digging on this:
The 1966 Slant Six A-bodies still used the low first gear, whereas the 273 cars got the 2.66:1 first. This is probably where my mistake originated. In my mind, it'll likely remain the "six cylinder" gearset for the rest of my days regardless. Old dogs 'n' such.
There was no 4-speed listed for the Slant Six in 1967 U.S. models, but the '66 low-gear transmission assembly is listed--it was export Slant Six A-body only. Furriners could have one; we couldn't. I call shenanigans.
Per Mother, the 1974 "318" transmission was only used in the A-body. One would think the portlier B-/E-bodies could've made good use of that low first. So could've anything larger than an A-body in '64-'66 with a small engine, for that matter.
Having never seen one, I have to wonder whether the '74-'75 version had the input-shaft groove. It's a different part number and the early input was 1/4" longer, per the parts manuals. Curious.
JDMopar
Well-Known Member
Question, trying to learn. Can you swap a later slip yoke tail shaft and housing onto one of those B&T 833's? I'd imagine having one of those Frankenstein driveshafts made to do away with the B&T joint ain't cheap!
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
You need to swap the mainshaft and the tailshaft housing to use a slip yoke. To use the B&T flange without the joint, the driveshaft needs to be a 2-piece sliding-spline unit... spendy indeed.
I bought a 1965 B&T trans at a local swap meet about 5 yrs ago. It was from a V-8 Barracuda and yes, /6 and V-8 were the identical 3.09 first gear trannies. I paid $225 and $150 more for the after-market Hurst Comp Plus shifter and rods.
My thinking was it's a direct swap in place of my 1964 3 speed manual in my Valiant.
I ended up putting close to $1000 into my bargain trans. First 4 speed I ever rebuilt and it works well. I had to get a new mainshaft from Passon cause mine had a damaged snap ring groove. Once inside, it was obvious this trans had a hard life with slick-shifted synchros, etc. Yes I kept my original B&T driveshaft as it was in good shape. The boot is the difficult part to keep in good shape. I'm using a modified ATV axle shift boot that seems to be holding up.
B&T tail housings have a ball bearing instead of a sleeve bearing. Nascar teams continued using them well into the 60s because of the superior output bearing.
Honestly, if I had to do it over, I probably would have converted to slip yoke because I ended up buying a new main shaft anyway.
My thinking was it's a direct swap in place of my 1964 3 speed manual in my Valiant.
I ended up putting close to $1000 into my bargain trans. First 4 speed I ever rebuilt and it works well. I had to get a new mainshaft from Passon cause mine had a damaged snap ring groove. Once inside, it was obvious this trans had a hard life with slick-shifted synchros, etc. Yes I kept my original B&T driveshaft as it was in good shape. The boot is the difficult part to keep in good shape. I'm using a modified ATV axle shift boot that seems to be holding up.
B&T tail housings have a ball bearing instead of a sleeve bearing. Nascar teams continued using them well into the 60s because of the superior output bearing.
Honestly, if I had to do it over, I probably would have converted to slip yoke because I ended up buying a new main shaft anyway.
cudamark
Well-Known Member
To someone who needs one, yes. It's a strange market for those. I figured the lower gear set was worth something, but, I never was able to sell those transmissions. When I closed up shop 10 years ago, 3 of them went over the scales with the other scrap.
JDMopar
Well-Known Member
So, when you swap the main drive in…can the gears from the early trans stay with it? Sorry for the dumb questions, but I’ve never been inside an 833. Like most all old men start a sentence about cars, “Back in my day, if a 4 speed didn’t work right…we’d pull it out and go pay $25 for one at the junkyard that did!” LOL
446acuda
Well-Known Member
These are the parts that have to be replaced. They are B-body B&T parts but it's the same idea. '66-up speedometer parts are also required. The 3.09 main case and with input and cluster gear can stay together unless the bearings need to be replaced.
cudamark
Well-Known Member
Just keep the main shaft gears matched to the countershaft gears.
446acuda
Well-Known Member
When keeping the ball and trunnion flange, there are 2 sizes available. So if you are going to shorten a driveshaft, you can pick the one in the best condition and swap the flange to match if you have to.
TheGrateRonzini
Well-Known Member
I have paid between 150$ and 300$. I went to autoplicity.com and they have all the conversion parts to slip yoke. Someone here posted a list one time. They have any dana spicer parts you may need. And cheap. And the rebuild kit is cheap from brewers
Yes, you can just swap the mainshaft and tail housing, everything else is the same. It has to be the 66-67 slant 6 or 273 mainshaft and tail housing together for the 26 spline output or 68-75 standard mainshaft and 68 up A/F-Body tail shaft for the 30 spline output. The small O/D tail housing only works with the small 26 spline O/D main shaft. The O/D mainshafts and gearsets are different. Early standard gears are nice strong gears and will fit any standard mainshaft, big or small output splines.
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