Best guess on 416 motor

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dusmon

dusmon

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Hi guys I'm building a 416 stroker and would like a best guess on ET./mph
3200 lbs Duster, 4.56 gears, 28" tire, 4200 stall, 727 trans.
340 block with a K1 crank {4" stroke} and rods, diamond pistons 10.65 compression. Heads are Indy T\A that have the full port job, told they flow 306 cfm on intake, TTI headers 1 3/4", SUPER VICTOR INTAKE with a 830cfm holley on top, Solid cam with .590 lift .263 @.50in .268@50ex. So give a idea what this will do.
 
it is going in the 10s...just a matter how far...depending on getting it hooked up

28" tire...slicks?

and how do you like that Super Victor?
 
28" slicks, as for intake? I have a strip dominater but I was told to buy the super victor. parts are new just bolting together.
Oh ya 1.5 rockers
 
Have not bought the carb yet so the option is still open.
 
carb...go with a holley 950

i ask about the SV cause i have one ...and i just put together a 408 but not sure whether to use it or the regular victor....
 
Because of the gearing, I say the static compression's a little low, the cam's a little small and the carb is way small. You'll be trapping around 7K rpm. The heads and lower end can take it. With what you list it won't support those rpms. So I'd say with no other changes, it may not make the tens (120mp). You have the potential, but you have to make use of it all.
 
moper said:
Because of the gearing, I say the static compression's a little low, the cam's a little small and the carb is way small. You'll be trapping around 7K rpm. The heads and lower end can take it. With what you list it won't support those rpms. So I'd say with no other changes, it may not make the tens (120mp). You have the potential, but you have to make use of it all.
Click to expand...

So what gear ratio, carb do you recommend? As these parts can be changed before spring. As for compression that now is fixed.
 
Well, changing the gears will mandate the converotr going too. So be aware of it. I think for starters I'd look at the Holley HP950 and run it. See what it does. Take your trap rpm, mph, and your incrementals and review them. It will tell you if it's nosing over. No sense spending just to spend before it's been run a few times.
 
Can you run a taller tire in the rear...like a 29.5?

that would help kill some of the gearing...
 
What are the hp estimates? The calculators are saying 550 hp minimum to dip into the 10's at 3400 pounds (i added 200 for the driver).
 
I don't want to be a party pooper but mid 11's is what I'd expect with that cam and compression...poor choice with that old 590/256 cam and using it with the rest of your hardware.
kinda like a $2.00 saddle on a $1000 horse. IMHO
 
Rob R said:
I don't want to be a party pooper but mid 11's is what I'd expect with that cam and compression...poor choice with that old 590/256 cam and using it with the rest of your hardware.
kinda like a $2.00 saddle on a $1000 horse. IMHO
Click to expand...

The cam is has .263in .268ex dur .590lift on a 104cl and is not a mopar cam sorry I should have been more clear on the specs of it.
 
1MeanA said:
What are the hp estimates? The calculators are saying 550 hp minimum to dip into the 10's at 3400 pounds (i added 200 for the driver).
Click to expand...

What do you use for a calculator to get that number sounds like a good tool.
I'll post pictures of engine being assembled as I put it together.
 
IMO, you are leaving a lot on the table with that cam with the worked heads. If you are set on using that cam, at least go with some 1.6 rockers to up the lift. The carb has already been addressed, Holley HP950.
Don't rely too much on those calculators. I know of 3400 lb Dusters with less than 500HP at the crank going in the 10's. If you have your suspension set up right and can hook up, you can probably get in the 10's with the combo you have. Hopefully I'll find out soon if I can get in the 10's with mine.
 
If it hooks, and if the tune up is close: EASY high-10's. Compare to ours:

416
12.2:1
Bullet solid cam (.585/.585 - 268/276 @ .050)
Comp 1.5 rockers
RHS 2.02 heads
OLD Victor
800 Holley (Stock, exc jets/squirters)
1 3/4 Hookers/Flowmaster Bullet Muffs

904
8" converter (5,100 stall, but haven't checked that yet)
4.56
29.5 slick
Mono leaf/Cal Tracs

Dead on 3,100# race ready

Leaving off the footbrake at 2,500, shifthing at 6,400, with 30* of timing...2,000-something DA: 10.33 @ 131 with half dozen laps under out belts. Hopefully we'll we out tuning and trying the carb tweaks that were done soon...

**Let me add a couple of points to this:

1) Peak head CFM doesn't mean much. Think about it; how much of the cam's time is spent at max lift of the lobe. I'm always more interested in what heads flow in the mid-lifts, .400-.550 for example. Good mid-lift head flow = torque!

2) Cam lobe DESIGN (or profile) can have a dramatic effect on power output.
 
From my experience with my race dart, 414/727/5000 stall/4.56 gears/30" tall slicks. You will trapping at least 7700 or some where around there. I have a 7300 chip in mine and am on the chip long before the line. I'm not pushing mine higher than that. My buddy and I just changed the gear ratio's to 4.11 and hopefully if the weather holds this weekend we'll find out if it was a smart move or should have gone with 4.30's.
 
I'll add that we're right at 7,000 at the stripe with a calcualted 3.7% converter slippage.

I, too would like to try 4.30's and MAYBE 4.10's at some point.

I will also say that if you already own the parts, go run it as is. One can NEVER predict what cam/gears/converters will amount to without some data (timeslips).
 
dusterdoug said:
I'll add that we're right at 7,000 at the stripe with a calcualted 3.7% converter slippage.

I, too would like to try 4.30's and MAYBE 4.10's at some point.

I will also say that if you already own the parts, go run it as is. One can NEVER predict what cam/gears/converters will amount to without some data (timeslips).
Click to expand...

Your combo is close to mine. Gears should be 4.30's with a 28" tire I have 4.56’s and 4.88’s on hand; I haven't bought a carb yet,{have a 750dp} but have the rest. As for cam it is an ultradine from the guys at bullet {same place}. This is a great forum as lots of guys are running similar parts and I enjoy all comments as everyone has different building idea's:thumbup:
 
dusterdoug said:
If it hooks, and if the tune up is close: EASY high-10's. Compare to ours:

416
12.2:1
Bullet solid cam (.585/.585 - 268/276 @ .050)
Comp 1.5 rockers
RHS 2.02 heads
OLD Victor
800 Holley (Stock, exc jets/squirters)
1 3/4 Hookers/Flowmaster Bullet Muffs

904
8" converter (5,100 stall, but haven't checked that yet)
4.56
29.5 slick
Mono leaf/Cal Tracs

Dead on 3,100# race ready

Leaving off the footbrake at 2,500, shifthing at 6,400, with 30* of timing...2,000-something DA: 10.33 @ 131 with half dozen laps under out belts. Hopefully we'll we out tuning and trying the carb tweaks that were done soon...

**Let me add a couple of points to this:

1) Peak head CFM doesn't mean much. Think about it; how much of the cam's time is spent at max lift of the lobe. I'm always more interested in what heads flow in the mid-lifts, .400-.550 for example. Good mid-lift head flow = torque!

2) Cam lobe DESIGN (or profile) can have a dramatic effect on power output.
Click to expand...

What do your heads flow?
 
I still think the cam's a little limited, but a lot will depend on the lobes on your cam. Bullet's got soem of the best, but many have similar specs in terms of duration at .050 and lift but vary greatly in terms of opening and lcosing ramps, ramp speed, etc. Stick a real carb on it and see what it does. I was assuming the MP cam too. I have much more faith in Bullet product, but I still think it's going to be hard to reach 10s.
 
dusmon said:
What do you use for a calculator to get that number sounds like a good tool.
I'll post pictures of engine being assembled as I put it together.
Click to expand...

If you search for 1/4 mile hp calculator you'll find a bunch. Their results will vary quite a bit. I have no idea what math is behind them but I assume it is loosely based on physics.

I would be interested in seeing some formulas for hp vs compression too (for a given engine) although there might be too many variables.
 
Mad Darts engine had a high 250's cam, 615 lift IIRC with 10.2 compression. It made in the low 500's for HP and TQ.

Look at w2Dusters engine. 10.5 ish 254 hyd roller, 10.85 - 122 and more still there. He's got 4.10's and 28" tires.

That combo has 10's in it.

Probably has a bit too much gear in the car. Put 4.10's in it with a 28" tire would be the direction I'd go.
 
dusmon said:
What do your heads flow?
Click to expand...

258 @ .600"
This was with a 2.02 intake, a quickie bowl blend and our valve job, with no clay on the intake port entrance.

Remember too, many flow benches vary. It's not a flowbench "race", it's just data in my book to gauge improvements. Brian @ IMM sees 270 from his RHS @ .600 IIRC.
 
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