Best ifs kit? rms, hdk, gt suspension, or magnum force?
- Thread starter 440 dart.
- Start date
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My Vote is for GT suspensions.
I'm gonna quote my thread about it:
"Thoughts so far, will update on install.
This thing is built stout, I'd mount it on a tank. And he's proud of it. Said that if you can find a stronger unit, let him know, he'll make it even stronger.
Full IFS coil overs, Shocks are dual adjusting.
Ball joints are rebuildable and maintainable QA1 units. Very nice
TIG welded and man do the welds look amazing.
I compared all 3 that I saw at the nats, RMS, HDK and GTS. All had similarities, all had differences. To me, its about building a better mouse trap. That's pretty much what the after market is about. Improving on what is already out there. Here's why I chose the kit over the others:
A: It didn't use the factory shock towers like the HDK. I know HDK rienforces the towers in their kit, which I'm sure does work just fine. But it's not something I wanted ultimately
B: It uses stronger and thicker steel than the others, granted it weighs a tad more than the others, but it appears stronger. It's also got more gussests than the others I saw as well. RMS is at 3/16th steel, GTS is 1/4, not sure on the HDK to be honest.
C: No drilling the frame. Only cutting required is to remove the bump stops.
D: Construction. The welds look AMAZING. again, everything is designed to improve factory caster/camber specs, lowers and uppers are designed to eliminate the caster/camber issues with the factory. Plus fully adjustable. Lower control arms are double shear, 2 cross bars, bucket style lower control arms, all of which are unique to this kit.
E: Bang for the buck. Price is way less than the RMS and even the HDK, even if you go high end on the brake kits. There are a couple cheaper kits out there, but I saw their quality and it sucks. Ultimately, this is to me, the best bang for the buck.
If you're in the market for a tubular suspension kit, look up Gerst. You wont be disappointed. Plus, its almost half of an RMS and cheaper than a Hemidenny as well.
3300 plus shipping for a basic kit with stock style brakes and a manual rack. you can upgrade from there to power steering, wilwood, sway bar etc.
I opted for no brakes since I have a set of mustang 2 brakes in the shop from my dad's project. A kit like mine is 3050 plus shipping. Course bare, non powdercoated may be even cheaper than that.
Comparison: All data off respective company's websites and or flyers. Prices may have changed or whatever but this is the most recent i could find.
RMS ALterkation = with brakes: 5600 plus shipping without brakes: 4995.00 plus shipping
HDK= bare kit, no powder coatingno brakes, no spindels, no rack, no coil overs: 2800, add 100 for the rack, plus 300 to 600 in brakes plus 300 to 600 in coilovers, plus the spindels (price not listed on their website for spindels, so i didnt include that), : 3900- 4100 plus shipping
GTS: Basic kit, everything but the brake kit. = 3050, basic kit with stock style brakes, 3300 plus shipping. The GTS kit comes with QA1 rebuildable and adjustable tension ball joints, viking dual adjustable coil overs and springs. Manual rack(upgradable to power), forged mustang 2 spindels, upper, lower control arms.
800 cheaper than the HDK and complete. and 2300 cheaper than RMS."
Also, the GT Suspension kit uses American made, quality parts. Other kits, such as hemidenny relies on Ebay sourced parts, which may or may not be of the same quality and may or may not be USA made. And some of those parts are rebuilt or reman'd. GTS also features adjustable widths and adjustable bump steering, the most suspension travel.
For my thread, go here http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=323486
76orangewagon
Well-Known Member
OMG..... asking opinions like that on here is like asking what's the best steak....everybody has there favorite, even though they know nothing about the proclaimed facts there telling you, some opinions are from members who haven't ever ran them to compare or even have a car for that matter. Some opinions here are defiantly useful but Talk to the Manufactures yourself and base your own opinion before dropping that much coin. My vote is for the HDK. Just wait your going to get the die hard pipe in and tell you there all a waste of money and a stock setup can be just as good, which is not what you asked but it happens over and over every time this question is asked, then comes the name calling and were all of the original subject. Good luck.
Very true Ross.
rayer: Especially when the factory diehards come in. And you're 100% right, what works for me, may not work for you and our likes and dislikes are different as well.Well I'm curious, rms uses a modified spindle, gt suspension uses a forged Mustang 2 spindle, and on here hdk says ebay spindle, his website says wilwood spindle, so which is it, I know a wilwood spindle is about .5 inches taller than a regular Mustang 2 spindle
hmmm, well I don't know the answer to that. But you are right, his website does show a wilwood spindle.....
This is what Denny said in my thread and what I was going off of with the ebay thing
Spun Bearing
Lost in Space
That question above doesn't make sense. It's like asking "Are you going to Cleveland or are you going
by bus?".
There seems to be some confusion here. You guys are mixing the TYPE of the spindle with the BRAND
of the spindle. The HDK uses a Mustang II (TYPE) 2" drop spindle that is available (BRAND) from eBay
(lower priced stuff), Wilwood (higher priced stuff) and probably a few dozen other places in between.
They choose to use this type because it gives the customer flexibility. They are the correct front steer
configuration and are standard street rod stuff, therefore the choices are many; just specify Mustang II
2" drop and pick your price bracket.
DR HEMI
Man on a Mission
FYI, no matter what IFS you use, there are probably lots of choices on spindles and brakes. Suffice it to say that there is a sizeable price difference between "Ebay" stuff and Wilwood Pro. The Wilwood being not only more expensive but a LOT lighter too.
That's what we are asking what brand, not what type. I realize it uses mustang 2 spindles, but the question is what brand? In the big realm it really doesn't matter as you can easily swap from brand to brand to a certain point. But i think I see 440 dart's question? because his website leads you to believe there are 2 different types, and there are. Wilwood does offer their version of regular mustang II spindles and their pro 2 inch drop. So my question is, are the ebay spindles denny mentioned in the other thread stock height or 2 inch drop
exactly :cheers:
Ok, first off, a wilwood pro spindle is taller than a regular everyday Mustang 2 spindle, so by putting one or the other on, changes the instant center, therefore changing bump steer characteristics, you can't just use a taller spindle, so if a suspension is designed based off a regular everyday Mustang 2 spindle, that's the ONLY style spindle, that should be used, if it's designed for a wilwood pro, that's all that should be used, dropped or not, that makes no difference, it's the upper and lower ball joint distance between the pivot points that matter, and you can't simply shorten or lengthen that distance, and not change the geometry.
Hi 440 dart
I agree.....the Wilwood spindle has an extra 1/2" from the center of the pin to the upper ball joint mount....which, can help improve (lower) the instant center on some builds.
With the HDK, on builds that are slammed (low stance).....I like using the basic (common street rod / not brand specific ) 2" drop, but
as the stance goes up, I find it beneficial to also raise the upper ball joint pivot point. I do this by utilizing the Wilwood Pro or other means (extended upper ball joint). On some builds with a high nose....a std NON-drop spindle (Wilwood or basic) is used.
One of questions I ask a potential customer...What stance / front end height are you looking for?....and what diameter tire are you using? From there, I can suggest the best combination for each specific build.
what is fun to me is all these builds are a little different......different strokes for different folks.
younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
This is like asking who is hotter: redheads, brunettes or blondes?
I will tell you that i have seen the RMS alterkation and ridden in an car with the set up and i own, drive and race a big block dart with the HDK setup. I chose the HDK for several reasons: The price point is easier to swallow. The unit is priced well. It also uses some off the shelf components that you can purchase on your own (steering rack, spindles, coilovers). This makes the system cost easy to split up and afford a bit at a time. It is also at a lower cost them some of the competitors. The quality it top notch. The customer service is second to none. I spoke with Denny @ HDK several times in great depth prior to even committing to a purchase. He spoke to me, not at me. He was able to explain his product in easy to understand but technical terms. He also took the time to ask about my build and its intended purpose. I have continued post purchase communication and he is very responsive and has ensured that my expectations were met. In this day and age I think the exceptional customer service is a selling point on its own.
I will tell you that i have seen the RMS alterkation and ridden in an car with the set up and i own, drive and race a big block dart with the HDK setup. I chose the HDK for several reasons: The price point is easier to swallow. The unit is priced well. It also uses some off the shelf components that you can purchase on your own (steering rack, spindles, coilovers). This makes the system cost easy to split up and afford a bit at a time. It is also at a lower cost them some of the competitors. The quality it top notch. The customer service is second to none. I spoke with Denny @ HDK several times in great depth prior to even committing to a purchase. He spoke to me, not at me. He was able to explain his product in easy to understand but technical terms. He also took the time to ask about my build and its intended purpose. I have continued post purchase communication and he is very responsive and has ensured that my expectations were met. In this day and age I think the exceptional customer service is a selling point on its own.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
go with the RMS. one stop shop,awesome quality, geometry and customer service.
never heard of this GT suspension.
stay far away from magnumforce.
never heard of this GT suspension.
stay far away from magnumforce.
76orangewagon
Well-Known Member
Well said, I couldn't agree more with the HDK and Denny part ....but it's obviously brunette's:thumblef:
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Mine MAY have been a unique experience....but as far as customer service goes RMS sucks...Felt like I was bothering him by asking questions. I went with Dennys front end. Every question I have asked has been answered in detail. Price was right. Build quality is top notch...
Honestly....spend some time reading here instead of just asking a loaded question like this.
Honestly....spend some time reading here instead of just asking a loaded question like this.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
unique for sure. you are the only person i have ever heard of that had any type of bad to say about dealing with bill.. hell i know guys that have talked to him for an hour and ended up not buying anything.. like to hear the rest of this story thats for sure.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
NO NO NO... red head baby..
Makes complete sense denny, and I couldn't agree more. As your changing ride height ( not by spindle, but actually adjusting your coilovers) how are you compensating the bump steer, because as your suspension travels, the instant center changes height and length.
I agree. While I didn't buy from RMS, I have talked to Bill twice about his street lynx rear kit. Very out going, very personal guy.
Carl Gerst of GT suspensions is the same way. Very knowledgeable, down to earth and he truly builds and touches every single part on his kit. I don't know about the others, but I'm fairly certain they have other people weld their k frame kits. While not a big deal, that's one of the reasons I ultimately went with the GTS kit. Nothing against Bill or Denny but I figured I'd give my business to the guy who not only designed his but builds each one, by hand, with extreme accuracy. Hes got his sweat and heart and mind into it and that's what I really liked.
The thing is...the word "best" is subjective and truly opinion based. Each of us must decide what we like. I'm just happy that we even have this debate right now. Because not long ago, this debate wouldn't have happened.
NO NO NO... red head baby..
No way man. Blondes........
As previously mentioned......the upper balll arm pivot is (somewhat) adjustable in increments of 1/2", by spindle or with extended upper ball joints. By doing so I can tune the angle of the UCA. The angle of the LCA is set....based on ride height. What good is changing the tie rod angle if you cannot adjust the LCA angle?. If the K builder does not have the FIXED LCA pivot point in the right place.....you can chase your tail all day raising and lowering the tie rod end attempting to adjust /fix it, but it will do no good.
All suspensions with upper and lower arms at significant unequal lengths (over 1/2") will have some bump steer at the ends up the travel, geometry makes those rules.....the goal is to get it a a minimum .....all while still using the factory UCA pivot points and frame rail location.
As I have mentioned in previous threads....the biggest disadvantage I found in utilizing a heim joint is limited travel.....especially at the narrow track width exclusive to the HDK.
BTW....ride height change of more than 1" on the HDK is done primarily by changing shocks (longer /shorter). ....by excessively cranking up the preload, you effectively stiffen up the ride
I have read where others claim their aftermarket front has longer travel......my thought is...at what track width?
I can move the HDK track width outward 2" and get increased travel, but the price is the wheels no longer tuck in nicely.
In my experience, I could never get much travel out of a heim end, not to mention the difficulty to easily keep them clean and lubed.
Right, I understand all that, which brings me back, with a fixed lca pivot point, if you add a taller spindle, or an extended ball joint, you have moved the instant center, so the tre end height would HAVE to change to get your tie rod axis back to instant center, because of unequal arm lengths, that's why you can't just use longer shocks or a taller spindle without changing the lca pivot point and adjusting the tie rod end, suspension geometry is designed around 1 specific ride hieght, other than putting a dropped spindle on, I don't see how you can set the ride hieght to wherever you want without changing the lca and tre placement, that's the laws of geometry, unless they changed recently and I didn't get that memo. Lol....no worries I'm just busting your balls here, but I do want to know how you eliminating the bump steer to a reasonable number, do you have specs on amount of bump steer per inch of travel?
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