Best replacement pistons for stock '69 engine

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Tylinol

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Hey guys. So, this being my first engine building venture outside of VW/Porsche world, I'm overwhelmed with piston choices (in that, there are more than two choices).

I've got a stock, original 1969 318 2bbl out of my '69 Barracuda. It was very worn out and was bored 40 over at the machine shop as part of the rebuild. Now I'm looking at pistons. I'd like to stay as close to the stock CR as possible, maybe slightly higher is fine (better than slightly lower). My old pistons have 4 small valve reliefs on them, but that's all I know. Most replacements I see seem to be flat top, and I'm not sure if that's compatible. The rods are stock and floating pin.

I'll be replacing the cam with a stock grind, for what it's worth. So, just a daily driver engine with a little more pep courtesy a 4 barrel intake and carb, plus TTI exhaust.

These look like they would fit the bill, but are they of reputable quality? $155 seems awful cheap for 8 pistons to me, but VW/Porsche pistons are my only basis of comparison.
1969 PLYMOUTH BARRACUDA Sealed Power 285AP40 Sealed Power Cast Pistons | Summit Racing
 
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Those pistons should work fine for a relatively stock application. With the stock cast iron heads (675 casting) I'd keep the compression ratio at 9:1 max unless you want to pay more for higher octane fuel. If you're adding a 4bbl and headers, I think I'd get a slightly higher performance cam. Something around the specs of the 340 purple shaft seems to work good on those 318 4bbl setups. You can go slightly less if you like a slightly smoother idle, but, you need one that will take advantage of the 4bbl and headers. Otherwise, why bother doing the upgrade, just leave it a 2bbl.
 
There are a few different compression heights for the stock replacement pistons. I would get the tallest compression height. That will end up giving you a little more compression. You should also have the block decked to assure the deck is at the correct height and square and parallel to the crank center line. Chrysler's tolerances there were out of spec to say the least.
 
Would the KB 167's put me over 9:1? I'd love to keep the CR low enough to not need 93.
Also, will they work with the floating wrist pin style of rods I have?

Cams are definitely another question for me (not to go down that road in an unrelated thread...)
This will be my daily-ish driver so a smooth (or at least not rough/choppy) idle and good vacuum are important
 
If the Ica(Intake Closing Angle) on your new cam is later than on the stock cam, then the Compression ratio needs to keep up, else the take-off power with the same gears and TC will go soft. How soft depends on how far from stock that you stray.
A higher than stock Compression ratio does not automatically put you into a higher-octane fuel. It's all in the combo. Increased cylinder pressure raises power everywhere in the RPM band. Whereas a 4bbl does nothing until the rpm gets up high enough to open it. With hi-way gears and a lo-stall, this can take a really long time.
You said TTI exhaust, but did not say Headers. Headers always add their power to the whole combo sortof as a percentage, and the percentage will vary from zero to maybe 10 or 12. So say your engine makes 150hp, then at 10% that would be 15 hp. but if your engine made say 250 hp, then 10% is 25hp.
If you pay 1000 smackers for your exhaust, then at 15 hp, that would be 1000/15=66.67 dollars per hp. But at 25 it drops to 40 dollars per hp. But here's the deal, this type of power increase occurs at or near the power peak, say 4200 on the 15 hp, or say 25 at 4700 on the other. But at a stall of say 1800, the power increase could be ZERO. So what this means is that when you take off from a dead stop, neither a 4bbl, nor headers, at a stall of 1800 may be any different from stock.
With a given engine (318 in this case) at zero mph there are only two things that will make a difference, namely cylinder pressure and increased stall. By far, stall gets the biggest gains.
As soon as the car gets moving, TM(Torque Multiplication) comes into play, so now gear ratios get the next bigger gains; not in horsepower, but in acceleration over time, which feels and acts like an increase in power.
What I'm saying is, for you;
So, just a daily driver engine with a little more pep courtesy a 4 barrel intake and carb, plus TTI exhaust.
A lil more pep is a easy as say a 2800 rpm stall and a bigger number rear gear. The 2800 will let your engine start off at zero mph with a boatload more power, and the gears will allow the engine to zip thru the rpms quicker, and it will do all this with or without a 4bbl or headers. Both of those would be icing on the cake.
Finally, if you stay with a stock-spec cam, you will sorta have to stick to the stockish Compression ratio. But if you go to a bigger cam, and I would if spending all this money anyway, then as mentioned, the Compression ratio has to keep up, else low-rpm power may suffer.
The stock 318 cam is so small (240/248/112) that you can easily jump it up two or perhaps three sizes before getting into fuel-economy issues.......if the Compression pressure is well co-ordinated.
Here is the big picture among cams; first the stocker, then progressively larger theoretical ones, installed at split overlap, and arranged as
intake/compression/power/exhaust/LSA/Ica/o-lap,and, on the end I tacked on the compression ratio to run a DCR of 7.99/ 8.01@600ft elevation, and the resulting pressure/VP (see*1).

240/130/122/248/112/50/20/9.10/160/133VP
248/128/120/256/110/52/32/9.22/160/131VP
252/127/123/256/108/53/38/9.29/160/131VP
256/125/120/262/108/55/43/9.39/160/129VP
>The numbers I want you to see are the Effective overlaps that grow from 20 to 43. These numbers only matter if you have headers. Overlap is the time, in degrees, during which both the intake and the exhaust valve are open, with the piston dwelling at TDC. At this time, the header puts a yank on the plenum that gets the fuel/air charge moving towards the chamber much much earlier than the falling piston can accomplish. And so this makes the power come on sooner and stronger, than it ever could with log-manifolds.
>I varied the LSA (112 to 108), to achieve very little Compression Ratio compensation to achieve the target 8.0Dcr/160 psi targets. But look, we still have a variation from 9.10 to 9.39, to achieve that target.
>I kept the power-extraction purposely long; 120 to 123, so you can get the same fuel economy in steady state operation as the 318 cam does.
>By comparing the intake durations (from 240 to 256), we can see about 2.5 cam sizes. Each cam size ( about 6 or 7 degrees) moves the power up about 200 rpm, so from bottom to top about 500 rpm; if the 240 peaks at say 4200, then the 256 might peak at 4700. I'll guess about 25/30 hp difference, meh maybe a tad more.
>Finally, watch the VP number; it is shrinking from 133 to 129. I tried to keep the shrinkage to a minimum because VP is what you feel on the gas pedal as performance. The bigger the better. The only ways to make this number bigger are; more cylinder pressure, or, a bigger engine . The only ways to get more cylinder pressure from a given engine size are; more compression ratio, or an earlier closing intake (which usually means a smaller cam).

*1, Read about VP here;
V/P Index Calculation
 
I would be interested in your stock '69 318 pistons if you are not going to re-use them.

Can PM me.

George Jets
Minnesota
 
For a stock rebuild, with a stock cam, that you want a smooth idle on regular gas...... those sealed power will be just fine. Sealed power is a very reputable brand, that has been around for 50 years, at least. The only thing is, you should have had the pistons in hand, before boring the block, so your machinist can fit the bore to the pistons, exactly.
 
The KB pistons will end up with too much compression for what "you" are wanting to do. If it was my build, I would stick with something simple and stock compression is simple. You've already said you don't want premium gas involved. So don't even look at the KB pistons. You shouldn't have even mentioned them. Now you're going to have certain members on here trying to railroad you into using them at the cost of you wanting to keep it simple. KEEP it simple. It's your money. Don't let it get "unsimple" unless you decide that's how you want it.
 
Just did some number crunching and piston comparison with the help of KB's compression calculator; in all cases head volume was 68cc, gasket crush thickness .039, gasket dia 4.10, deck clearance based on deck height of 9.600:
Sealed power 285AP30 comp ratio....7.496
Mahle S224-2007.020 comp ratio...7.762
KB167 .030 comp ratio......8.89
Info for pistons from Summit Racing

Admittedly all these numbers can be manipulated to change the out come to prove or disprove a point of view
 
Just did some number crunching and piston comparison with the help of KB's compression calculator; in all cases head volume was 68cc, gasket crush thickness .039, gasket dia 4.10, deck clearance based on deck height of 9.600:
Sealed power 285AP30 comp ratio....7.496
Mahle S224-2007.020 comp ratio...7.762
KB167 .030 comp ratio......8.89
Info for pistons from Summit Racing

Admittedly all these numbers can be manipulated to change the out come to prove or disprove a point of view

Am I correct in thinking that all of these are lower compression than my stock '69 pistons, with the Sealed Power in particular being dramatically lower? I'd read that stock for a '69 2bbl was 9.2:1, but that seems awful high for a grocery getter engine.
 
Mopar was famous for advertising at least a half point higher compression than there actually was. Your two barrel 318 was probably really 8 1/2-8 3/4 to one.
There are several ways to raise compression with a given piston, you can deck the block, surface the heads, and use a thinner head gasket.
That said, i hereby withdraw my recommendation for the sealed power. 7 1/2 is rediculous, too much other work, mentioned above, to get to a reasonable number.
I would shoot for a real 8 1/2 to one. Measurements and calculations required.
 
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Yes. Take Measurements First.
JBurch used 68 cc, but he's just estimating. One book says '69 could cc as low as 60. That's the minimum spec and you'll never find that on an untouched original. Chamber volume measurement isn't that difficult. Well worth it IMO.

Since the machinist had to go .040 over on the bore and you say the pistons have 4 valve recesses, it is likely this engine has been rebuilt once before. I would not assume anything. Its possible the heads are not even from a '69 318, although the book show the same casting through '74.
 
Am I correct in thinking that all of these are lower compression than my stock '69 pistons, with the Sealed Power in particular being dramatically lower? I'd read that stock for a '69 2bbl was 9.2:1, but that seems awful high for a grocery getter engine.

That is why I like those factory '69 318 pistons. Grocery Getter "Suprise" !!!
 
Here are the compression heights of pistons in question:

Stock 1969 piston: 1.77 info source "How to Hot Rod Small Block Mopars" by Larry Shepard
Sealed power 285AP30: 1.720 info source Summit Racing
Mahle S224-2007.030: 1.741 info source Summit Racing
KB167.030: 1.810 info source Summit Racing

As already stated Mother Mopar was very liberal in "claimed" compression ratios. There is more to compression ratio than what pistons to use; just proceed carefully.
 
Am I correct in thinking that all of these are lower compression than my stock '69 pistons, with the Sealed Power in particular being dramatically lower? I'd read that stock for a '69 2bbl was 9.2:1, but that seems awful high for a grocery getter engine.

Correct in THEORY only. Chrysler advertised the 318 at 9.2. It was more like 8,0 or possibly even 7.9. Chrysler was notorious for machining decks tall and crooked and combustion chambers large. None of them were "as advertised" as for compression. They always blueprint out on the low side when you measure.
 
Stock 1969 318 Valve Relief Pistons in stock bore original 1969 block.

Pistons sit. 040 ths. down in the hole.

Screenshot_20210530-195257_Gallery.jpg


This engine was listed at 230 hp and 9.2:1 cr. with a dual plane 2 bbl intake and 2 bbl carb, before the re-ring job. Then upgraded to 302 closed chamber heads, 340 cam, LD4B Intake and 1650 Edelbrock 4 bbl carb and 2 1/2" TTI X-Pipe exhaust.

The 1969 318 original short block was sure a great place to start on our minor build up. Preforms Nicely . . .

☆☆☆☆
 
Yes. Take Measurements First.
JBurch used 68 cc, but he's just estimating. One book says '69 could cc as low as 60. That's the minimum spec and you'll never find that on an untouched original. Chamber volume measurement isn't that difficult. Well worth it IMO.

Since the machinist had to go .040 over on the bore and you say the pistons have 4 valve recesses, it is likely this engine has been rebuilt once before. I would not assume anything. Its possible the heads are not even from a '69 318, although the book show the same casting through '74.

Interesting. The machinist seemed to think that it had not been rebuilt before due to the type of cylinder head gasket and the nylon timing gear (which was the engine's eventual undoing). It was very worn out and only a couple cylinders even broke 100psi, plus it had more sludge than I had ever seen. But, it's certainly possible it was rebuilt early on.

It seems like the KB pistons will probably be my only option to get close (or slightly higher) than stock CR, but to be sure I've ordered a burette so I can accurately cc the heads.

I'll take a look at my '69 pistons and see if they're in decent shape - I know at least one missed the towel I had set up and chipped itself hitting the concrete on the way out. To be honest I wasn't as careful with them as I could have been, since I assumed there was no use for worn, stock 318 pistons.
 
Interesting. The machinist seemed to think that it had not been rebuilt before due to the type of cylinder head gasket and the nylon timing gear (which was the engine's eventual undoing). It was very worn out and only a couple cylinders even broke 100psi, plus it had more sludge than I had ever seen. But, it's certainly possible it was rebuilt early on
Just suggesting because he had to go so much over. Jets posted a picture shping some original pistons like yours.
 
Alright, got my burette in and heads (675 casting) cc'd - right at 67cc per chamber.
My block was decked slightly, but not zero-decked (or at least, I didn't ask for zero-deck). My actual deck height is therefore a bit of an unknown,
although the machine shop may be able to give me the actual number. I think I can assume a deck height between 9.59 and 9.6?

So, running the numbers for the KB167:
Cyl head volume: 67cc
Piston head volume: 5cc
gasket thickness: .043 (I think this is the regular comes-in-the-kit gasket)
gasket bore: 4.1"
Cylinder bore: 3.950" (40 over)
Stroke: 3.31"

Since deck clearance is a question, I'll run it at both extremes:
Zero deck: 9.18:1 CR
9.6" deck height: 8.94:1 CR

For the sealed power, I have to bring my deck height down to 9.55 and assume the valve reliefs take up less than 2cc before I start getting CR above 8.5. I frankly don't know how much is usually taken off with decking for a simple rebuild, but that seems like a lot. It seems would need a very thin head gasket.

So, if that checks out, it seems like the KB167 is the way to go for close to (or slightly above) stock performance.
 
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