BluePrint Engines 392 Hemi Interest? Thoughts? Comments?

-

Johnny Mac

www.blueprintengines.com
FABO Vendor
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
4,333
Reaction score
4,819
Location
OHIO
Hello all,

Let me start off by saying if this thread would be better in the Gen III section, Feel free to move it.

As you guys know, I'm a big Mopar guy, and have several, and you know i'm always pushing to do more in the mopar market.

Not too dissimilar from the LS market, the gen III Hemi is making its way into many restomods, trucks, drag cars, etc. It doesn't come without its own set of trials, but more and more of these engines are finding their way into builds in place of big blocks, and high po smallblocks. The aftermarket has finally started supporting swaps, and performance parts. But i'm not telling many of you things you don't already know!


Onto some pretty cool things you may not know about! I've had some meetings recently on the viability, and market demands of a gen III. we've discussed everything from a 5.7, to a 426, and I think our most viable option is landing on the 392.

What I'd like to offer is a forged internal 392, somewhere in the high 500 HP area, in a complete turn key configuration, but offer it at a price that's less than, or similar to chryslers 6.4 package.

for conversations sake, lets just say this would be 9K at a complete engine, and 11K as turn key with an ecu/controller/harness.

In comparison to our BluePrint Mopar 408, if i equipped a 470 hp roller 408 with a sniper, It'd be 8600...and people buy them...so i don't think we're nuts at this level. another 100 horse, and factory style MPFI for the difference I think is fair.

Let me answer some FAQ's below on this project, and feel free to weigh in below with your own.

Q: What exactly will the engine be?
A: a 392 (small chance of a 426) stroker gen III hemi with 2009+ cylinder heads and block

Q: What benefits will this have vs the chrysler offerings?
A: Forged internals, more HP, actual tech support. Dyno tested, 30 month warranty, availability, swap oil pan included, more cost effective than the "MP" versions, with premium internals.

Q: Why not do an inexpensive 5.7?
A: We will never win the "inexpensive" battle as a performance engine builder, when compared to a "reman" 5.7, or a used/junkyard takeout. If someone is shopping a hemi from a 150K mile police car, and wants to pin their own harness, and roll the dice with that engine, thats fine in my book, but we can't play in that space profitably, so this is purely aimed at a competitor to the "MP" offerings, and dare i said a replacement for the Mopar Big block.

Q:Will this be OEM MPFI? or aftermarket?
A:At this time, we're leaning toward an aftermarket intake, but using an OEM computer that will be unlocked for future HP tuner use.

------------------

My Questions for you:

Would you consider BluePrint if you were shopping the Gen III market place?
Why, or why not?

Are there any unknowns that prevent you from considering a Gen III?

Anything this engine would need to have, or not have to be attractive?
(like how we will address any and all valve seat, timing chain, etc, issues of the OE hemi)

Open to any questions. I'll be as transparent as I can be at this moment. I realize a crate engine isn't for everyone, let alone a modern powerplant, or something thats 10K, but please appreciate the effort, and willingness to offer something else for the marketplace, and hopefully with your feedback we can see this come to light!

Johnny Mac
BluePrint Engines
 
After this question maybe it will be moved to the magnum swap :D Means your doing magnum 408's, will you look into making a 200 dollar dual plane mag intake - idle to 6000 maybe??? 390.00 for a eddy air gap is brutal!
Oh, about your question... LOL... I'm sure it would be out of my price range, but sounds cool.
 
I love the idea of a 392. My goal is for my 40th bday (few years away) is to buy a Hemi crate for my first car (69 Dart) As of now I’m eyeballing the MP crate off Mancini, but if blueprint were to come up with something similar or better I’d look into it. Dustin
 
So moved. Great idea Johnny.
 
Last edited:
I love the idea of a 392. My goal is for my 40th bday (few years away) is to buy a Hemi crate for my first car (69 Dart) As of now I’m eyeballing the MP crate off Mancini, but if blueprint were to come up with something similar or better I’d look into it. Dustin
Glad to hear!
 
What I'd like to offer is a forged internal 392, somewhere in the high 500 HP area, in a complete turn key configuration, but offer it at a price that's less than, or similar to chryslers 6.4 package.

for conversations sake, lets just say this would be 9K at a complete engine, and 11K as turn key with an ecu/controller/harness.

In comparison to our BluePrint Mopar 408, if i equipped a 470 hp roller 408 with a sniper, It'd be 8600...and people buy them...so i don't think we're nuts at this level. another 100 horse, and factory style MPFI for the difference I think is fair. I'd guess I would be in minority with that mindset as folks would want to be built for more HP. Although there might be those with current Gen 3 in their modern cars who might like a complete "new" engine to simply swap their high mileage engines in their modern Mopars.

My Questions for you:

Would you consider BluePrint if you were shopping the Gen III market place?
Why, or why not?

Are there any unknowns that prevent you from considering a Gen III?

As someone who bought a used 6.1 Hemi, and had to buy a second one to replace the first one lol. I'd say it is nice if you can be at a slightly lower or similar price point as the Mopar crate offering with additional stuff needed for install.

Can make sense to compare your 408 with FI to this Gen 3 option if someone wants to go that modern motor route.

I would consider Blueprint as a option. Keeping in mind that value for what you are getting would be a major driver. Although personally I don't care to make additional power and like to just enjoy with cruising. So I'd really like someone to offer a a great price "new" Gen 3 Hemi engines that are cheaper than existing crates and not taking the risk of having to get a used engine from a junkyard/ebay/etc.

My unknowns have been the ease of complete "one stop" shop for everything you need to install like a really complete kit with everything you could need to install.
 
I think you would sell them.
Present the following to management:

Have we ever lost money on a Mopar project?
 
I would buy your Hemi engine package in a heartbeat. I like your thinking.
 
I would buy your Hemi engine package in a heartbeat. I like your thinking.
Thank you sir! my HDK is still going strong in the dart! probably 7 or 8 years now!
I know you have Hemi mounts....so this may be in my future :)
 
As someone who bought a used 6.1 Hemi, and had to buy a second one to replace the first one lol. I'd say it is nice if you can be at a slightly lower or similar price point as the Mopar crate offering with additional stuff needed for install.

Can make sense to compare your 408 with FI to this Gen 3 option if someone wants to go that modern motor route.

I would consider Blueprint as a option. Keeping in mind that value for what you are getting would be a major driver. Although personally I don't care to make additional power and like to just enjoy with cruising. So I'd really like someone to offer a a great price "new" Gen 3 Hemi engines that are cheaper than existing crates and not taking the risk of having to get a used engine from a junkyard/ebay/etc.

My unknowns have been the ease of complete "one stop" shop for everything you need to install like a really complete kit with everything you could need to install.

Thanks! and thats the perfect comparison, and reasoning for a package!

The Modern hemi's are awesome engines, but buying one with 100-200K miles on it of unknown abuse isn't my idea of a "deal" no matter how cheap. especially with some of the lifter, timing chain, and valve seat TSB's out there.

This is where our engine becomes attractive, especially with actual availability and performance revisions vs the "OEM" crates.
 
This is a great idea IMO and certainly something worthy of serious consideration. With the built in ease Blue Print handles for the end user, it will certainly make life easier.

I assume you will have all the small parts for hooking up the older 727/904 transmissions up and such little things at the ready?

(I really don’t know what it takes to do these things. I’m sure I’m not alone here in the dark about modern drive trains and how to work with them. I’m very old school.)

I have heard of some of the problem areas of the new HEMI. There are of a concern. Dropping valve seats and roller lifter failures are scary and very expensive.

FWIW, IMO,
The public considering this engine should be able to read about BP’s fixes/updates on the web site as they browse the engine.
 
This is a great idea IMO and certainly something worthy of serious consideration. With the built in ease Blue Print handles for the end user, it will certainly make life easier.

I assume you will have all the small parts for hooking up the older 727/904 transmissions up and such little things at the ready?

(I really don’t know what it takes to do these things. I’m sure I’m not alone here in the dark about modern drive trains and how to work with them. I’m very old school.)

I have heard of some of the problem areas of the new HEMI. There are of a concern. Dropping valve seats and roller lifter failures are scary and very expensive.

FWIW, IMO,
The public considering this engine should be able to read about BP’s fixes/updates on the web site as they browse the engine.
100% agree. ours will for sure have the valve seats, timing chains, roller lifters, all corrected in performance/aftermarket fashion. That'll be a big selling point IMO.
we do work with some vendors that offer Hemi trans packages, even some GM 4L based offerings.
the 727/904 is just a flexplate away from bolting directly to a genIII, and we do offer a 727 currently that'd handle the horsepower currently.

thanks for weighing in!
 
Thanks! and thats the perfect comparison, and reasoning for a package!

The Modern hemi's are awesome engines, but buying one with 100-200K miles on it of unknown abuse isn't my idea of a "deal" no matter how cheap. especially with some of the lifter, timing chain, and valve seat TSB's out there.

This is where our engine becomes attractive, especially with actual availability and performance revisions vs the "OEM" crates.

Yep, and also not just us resto-folks... There I am sure many current late model Mopar folks out there would also like a reasonable "new" engine for their 100,000+ OE mile engines versus having to pay/find someone to reman/rebuild their OE engine. Or risk getting a junkyard/ebay/etc. replacement motor.
 
I have poked the G3 bear myself, and have walked away. Perhaps you guys have the resources to tackle the obstacles that scared me off.

You obviously know that the internals on these engines are questionable even at stock levels....solved.

Computer/cam/compatibility issues... you're working on it. The vvt/non-vvt cores, tone rings, ect drives hotrodders nuts.

The oiling issue...? I don't have any solutions yet, but some of the big boys seem to have figured it out. Every G3 that I've opened up had excessive wear(scored bearings, scorched valvetrain, ect). Could just be crap machining from the factory, but I can't finance experiments.

Valvetrain geometry... disaster! If you guys can figure out a way to build people's confidence in the valvetrain stability it would certainly help the real gearheads. Most people have never taken a G3 apart and looked at the assembled valvetrain. The cam has been raised so far for the pushrods to clear the chamber that they are almost horizontal. This creates some awful angles, and I'm convinced is at least a contributor to the "hemi tick".

Mopar finally gave us a bullet proof block and heads that breathe. They're are some serious issues that need resolving though for me. I personally am looking for LS attributes in a Mopar package. I want 600+ NA HP, reasonable streetability, and dead nuts 200k mile reliability in a package that I can personalize. I'm not your target customer though(although I would certainly consider a long block with the bugs worked out).
 
I have poked the G3 bear myself, and have walked away. Perhaps you guys have the resources to tackle the obstacles that scared me off.

You obviously know that the internals on these engines are questionable even at stock levels....solved.

Computer/cam/compatibility issues... you're working on it. The vvt/non-vvt cores, tone rings, ect drives hotrodders nuts.

The oiling issue...? I don't have any solutions yet, but some of the big boys seem to have figured it out. Every G3 that I've opened up had excessive wear(scored bearings, scorched valvetrain, ect). Could just be crap machining from the factory, but I can't finance experiments.

Valvetrain geometry... disaster! If you guys can figure out a way to build people's confidence in the valvetrain stability it would certainly help the real gearheads. Most people have never taken a G3 apart and looked at the assembled valvetrain. The cam has been raised so far for the pushrods to clear the chamber that they are almost horizontal. This creates some awful angles, and I'm convinced is at least a contributor to the "hemi tick".

Mopar finally gave us a bullet proof block and heads that breathe. They're are some serious issues that need resolving though for me. I personally am looking for LS attributes in a Mopar package. I want 600+ NA HP, reasonable streetability, and dead nuts 200k mile reliability in a package that I can personalize. I'm not your target customer though(although I would certainly consider a long block with the bugs worked out).
The Gen III is a bit of a "different" design compared to the typical pushrod V8, you hit the nail on the head there. Its almost a blend of the LS and ford Mod engines. I was somewhat surprised the first one i built to find the pushrods and lifters pointing near horizontal in the block. Made cam changes easy.lol
we have sim testers that run the engine rotating assembly manually (without fire/fuel) and those are analyzed for wear as a precursor to dyno, and as part of the R&D process.
The reluctor/VVT stuff isn't a concern as we will have the matched ECU/harness. The thought now is a VVT era block/heads (to gain the headflow benefits) with the VVT limited for the larger cam for this power level. Again forged internals, upgrades to wear and oe weak points. pretty cool deal.
another great thing is these engines still fit an A-body. SO where a ford mod has huge limitations on swaps...this one really doesn't have insurmountable issues.
The LS comparison is fine with me, and i agree. if we can't do this for the same ballpark of our LS427 we offer, then its not worth doing.
 
Hello all,

Let me start off by saying if this thread would be better in the Gen III section, Feel free to move it.

As you guys know, I'm a big Mopar guy, and have several, and you know i'm always pushing to do more in the mopar market.

Not too dissimilar from the LS market, the gen III Hemi is making its way into many restomods, trucks, drag cars, etc. It doesn't come without its own set of trials, but more and more of these engines are finding their way into builds in place of big blocks, and high po smallblocks. The aftermarket has finally started supporting swaps, and performance parts. But i'm not telling many of you things you don't already know!


Onto some pretty cool things you may not know about! I've had some meetings recently on the viability, and market demands of a gen III. we've discussed everything from a 5.7, to a 426, and I think our most viable option is landing on the 392.

What I'd like to offer is a forged internal 392, somewhere in the high 500 HP area, in a complete turn key configuration, but offer it at a price that's less than, or similar to chryslers 6.4 package.

for conversations sake, lets just say this would be 9K at a complete engine, and 11K as turn key with an ecu/controller/harness.

In comparison to our BluePrint Mopar 408, if i equipped a 470 hp roller 408 with a sniper, It'd be 8600...and people buy them...so i don't think we're nuts at this level. another 100 horse, and factory style MPFI for the difference I think is fair.

Let me answer some FAQ's below on this project, and feel free to weigh in below with your own.

Q: What exactly will the engine be?
A: a 392 (small chance of a 426) stroker gen III hemi with 2009+ cylinder heads and block

Q: What benefits will this have vs the chrysler offerings?
A: Forged internals, more HP, actual tech support. Dyno tested, 30 month warranty, availability, swap oil pan included, more cost effective than the "MP" versions, with premium internals.

Q: Why not do an inexpensive 5.7?
A: We will never win the "inexpensive" battle as a performance engine builder, when compared to a "reman" 5.7, or a used/junkyard takeout. If someone is shopping a hemi from a 150K mile police car, and wants to pin their own harness, and roll the dice with that engine, thats fine in my book, but we can't play in that space profitably, so this is purely aimed at a competitor to the "MP" offerings, and dare i said a replacement for the Mopar Big block.

Q:Will this be OEM MPFI? or aftermarket?
A:At this time, we're leaning toward an aftermarket intake, but using an OEM computer that will be unlocked for future HP tuner use.

------------------

My Questions for you:

Would you consider BluePrint if you were shopping the Gen III market place?
Why, or why not?

Are there any unknowns that prevent you from considering a Gen III?

Anything this engine would need to have, or not have to be attractive?
(like how we will address any and all valve seat, timing chain, etc, issues of the OE hemi)

Open to any questions. I'll be as transparent as I can be at this moment. I realize a crate engine isn't for everyone, let alone a modern powerplant, or something thats 10K, but please appreciate the effort, and willingness to offer something else for the marketplace, and hopefully with your feedback we can see this come to light!

Johnny Mac
BluePrint Engines
Seriously? Now you bring that up? Your killing me small! I am knee deep in a Gen 3 swap (6.1) into my Demon. I have spent an easy 10 k getting to the point of your proposed crate. Keep in mind mine is used of unknown abuse at 50k miles. I would sell it tomorrow and take the loss to put one of your proposed crates in. Sorting out the top side and oil pan stuff in conjunction with ECU is what spooked me the most. I have a build thread on here outlining many of my road blocks and redneck solutions. I have learned enough that I am determined to do it again. I would use one of your crates in a heart beat! Thanks guy. Feel free to PM me and I can elaborate. Doing the swap with a OEM motor is not for the faint hearted. Your solution is as always graceful and customer oriented. Go man go!
 
May I say Kudos, for your forward thinking in bringing ALL you do to the Mopar enthusiast. Shops like yours that offer many levels of different engines, offer a viable option for us to keep our cars on the road.
 
I would be interested in the 392 as well. It would be a very nice option to offer up all the pieces as a package or at least have a master vendor list to make it easy. For me, my goal would be a motor and transmission with ecu and wiring to plug it in and go. Plus A/C compressor and components as that would be a must have for swapping into my 69 GTX to drive it in AZ.
 
We have 727's and even some 4 speed GM 4L offerings with Mopar adapter bellhousings that we can work with to get that taken care of.
Also have pretty tight ties to Front drive suppliers that i'm sure would be happy to work with us.
 
Seriously? Now you bring that up? Your killing me small! I am knee deep in a Gen 3 swap (6.1) into my Demon. I have spent an easy 10 k getting to the point of your proposed crate. Keep in mind mine is used of unknown abuse at 50k miles. I would sell it tomorrow and take the loss to put one of your proposed crates in. Sorting out the top side and oil pan stuff in conjunction with ECU is what spooked me the most. I have a build thread on here outlining many of my road blocks and redneck solutions. I have learned enough that I am determined to do it again. I would use one of your crates in a heart beat! Thanks guy. Feel free to PM me and I can elaborate. Doing the swap with a OEM motor is not for the faint hearted. Your solution is as always graceful and customer oriented. Go man go!
Thanks buddy! Doing what we can. I'll make a note you'll take the first one in place if your 6.1 :) lol
Jokes aside, i've heard enough nightmares with guys buying aftermarket harness's, and pullout engines, from NAME BRAND companies, that i think its time we offer a better solution.
 
i think its a good idea. i'd like to see less powerful cheaper versions too.. 9k is a bit steep for a rebut one in my opinion but thats mopars i guess...

modern power plants are the way to go in the future if you ask me... biggest drawback is having to hack the **** out of a mopar to fit a good OD trans in one.


damn gm guys have it nice.. a friend just put something similar to this into a 66 chevelle. says its a rocket ship.. Chevrolet Performance 19370413PAK: LS3 Crate Engine and 4L70E Trans Kit | JEGS
 
i think its a good idea. i'd like to see less powerful cheaper versions too.. 9k is a bit steep for a rebut one in my opinion but thats mopars i guess...

modern power plants are the way to go in the future if you ask me... biggest drawback is having to hack the **** out of a mopar to fit a good OD trans in one.


damn gm guys have it nice.. a friend just put something similar to this into a 66 chevelle. says its a rocket ship.. Chevrolet Performance 19370413PAK: LS3 Crate Engine and 4L70E Trans Kit | JEGS

Very familiar with the "connect and cruise" from GM. The thing there is they are just an OEM LS3. I'd like to try and be above that mark.
i do agree it'd be nice to have an OE style 5.7 for less $$....but at that level we're one step closer to fighting with the takeout engines, and the "Mopar" crate offerings. don't know if we'd win that battle. we'll see where the research and future takes us. at least with a forged setup in a 392...we're far enough removed form either mopar hemi crate to be unique.
 
Last edited:
Thank you sir! my HDK is still going strong in the dart! probably 7 or 8 years now!
I know you have Hemi mounts....so this may be in my future :)

let me know when ready....I fix you up with a set of the latest version.
 
The one stop shopping is really enticing. The ready to install "package" is more of an offering than the MP kit as it is.Will it be available with customer desired accessory drives (ie. alt.,p/s,a/c)? So if I took out the 408 at the end of the season, I could "drop in"your 392 (with all the tins and conversions done by BP) , directly to my 727? Needing only mounts and headers,radiator hookup and converting my Sportsman XFI to GenIII? I'm thinking a port matched speedmaster stack injection intake and a lot of fun. Any idea of weights? Right now with an iron block 408 and 16 gallons of fuel and no driver my '68 is 2960# with 1500# even on the nose. Doing the math, with what you're proposing as a package it couldn't be done for the money using MP engine, kits and parts . I like the idea. I feel a call to Denny for mounts coming.....
 
-
Back
Top