Bob's Component Resto, Part 25: The Paperwork

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cruiser

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Good evening my Mopar kiddies. I trust the new year has brought you happiness, peace and restful sleep. For some of us of course, the new year may not bring an end to your challenged sleep schedule, and so we'll try to remedy that with this evening's component resto chapter: The Paperwork. As you likely know, there was a lot of "paperwork" that accompanied our Chrysler vehicles when they were delivered new. For many guys and gals, this paperwork really isn't that important and missing it is not a big problem. Most of us, after all, are about mechanically restoring our cars and running down those elusive parts to make them complete. A small subset of our hobby has an obsession about acquiring the correct original paperwork that came with the car, and yes I'm one of those people. And so when my 1974 Gold Duster came up for sale in the spring of 2019, I knew that this one was a winner because it came with a remarkably complete paperwork package compiled by the original owner. He bought the car in December of 1973 and kept it until 2010. Two owners later, it was again for sale and I snapped it up via an ad in Classics on AutoTrader. So the following is my personal opinion on what makes a complete paperwork package. You may have a differing opinion, so feel free to add yours below. First, you've gotta have the "hardware". And yeah, I know this stuff isn't paper, but since it drives the paperwork package it seems really important to me. Start with the fender tag, which my Duster did not have. But it did have the dash VIN tag, the door sticker and a host of other evidence such as the car's serial number (129869) stamped upside down on the front of the driver's side of the radiator core support. Upon submitting the proper documentation to MMC Detroit, I had them make me a replacement fender tag. I found two of the correct fender tag mounting screws, then painted the screws and the tag in the car's original JY9 Tahitian Gold Metallic paint and installed the tag on the mounting location on the left inner fender. The first owner doesn't know what happened to the original tag, but it sure felt great to replace it after being missing for decades. So now I had the hardware issue licked. I had the fender tag, dash VIN tag, and numerous car serial numbers stamped in several places (including the full VIN stamped on the numbers matching original transmission). On to the paperwork. For starters, I think you need the broadcast sheet. I was incredibly lucky to acquire the perfect original broadcast sheet when I bought the car. At some point early in its life, the car's broadcast sheet was removed from its factory location (under the sound insulation pad beneath the carpeted floor of the front passenger seat) and placed in a plastic sleeve for secure storage. I've never in my life seen a broadcast sheet this nice. This of course provided a wealth of info for recreating the fender tag. Next is the window sticker. Oddly, the car came with a color photocopy of the two page window sticker, but not the window sticker itself. Strange I thought, but I contacted a company that reproduces window stickers and they made me a perfect repro window sticker set that's exactly identical to the original. So I had my broadcast sheet and window sticker set, and now it was on to the lesser known stuff. The Duster came with its bill of sale from Hershberger Motors in Woodburn OR, and came with the original factory warranty folder with the car's VIN on it. The car also came with the very rare factory supplied braking information sheet which contains the vehicle's VIN and SO (sequential ordering) number. In addition, I have the original owner's manual and its vinyl sleeve, and the warranty servicing brochure from Chrysler. Finally, the car came with a bunch of paperwork from its previous life documenting all of the major maintenance (such as an engine replacement in 1988 and a repaint job in 1994) that had been performed, and a bunch of minor stuff (like oil changes) as well. I was able to take this large heap of maintenance receipts and compile an accurate maintenance history of the car, which I add onto every time I work on it. So now I have the complete package: The hardware, the paperwork, and the service records, all of which I keep in a tidy folder in my nice warm basement in Minneapolis. So to summarize, this is what I think a really good paperwork package looks like: The broadcast sheet, the window sticker, the door jamb sticker, the warranty folder, the braking information sheet, and a nice stack of service receipts documenting the important stuff (like repaints or engine replacements). Less important receipts (such as tire replacements or oil changes) are nice to have but not as necessary as the big stuff. Regrets? My biggest one is not having the numbers matching engine. The first owner changed it out for a parts store motor in 1988 after it started burning a lot of oil. He tried, but was unable to locate the original engine for me. So I was left with a correct part number block out of another 1974 A body vehicle which I've restored to December of 1973 standards. So there you have it, kids. I hope you found tonight's discussion enlightening and are now ready for a nice long nap. Please see the photos below and note that I've obscured the original owner's info to respect his privacy. One final topic to touch on: I know that putting my car's VIN and other info out there on the interweb exposes me to scammers who steal this stuff. But I feel that most Mopar people are honest and articles like this help expand the knowledge of our beloved hobby, so I'll take the hit on this because I think its for a good cause. In any case, I hope you enjoyed tonight's installment and are ready for a nice long nap. Now go upstairs and have two cookies with a glass of milk and go to bed. Night night!

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Upon submitting the proper documentation to MMC Detroit, I had them make me a replacement fender tag.

You can tell him he screwed up, LOL - because he did!
 
Ask him, he calls himself an 'expert' .
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're getting at. Could you please address the following questions:
Are you implying that he incorrectly made the replacement fender tag? How do you know this? If so, what specifically do you think is incorrect? Do you think the rest of the tag is correct? What data base are you going off? What is your expertise in this topic? Do you manufacture fender tags, and if so how long have you been doing this? Has he ever provided his services to you? If not, why not? If he has provided his service to you, why were you unsatisfied, if at all? What specifically did he do wrong? Can you provide amplifying information to prove that you're correct, and that he's wrong? To your comment that he "calls himself an expert", I never once heard him say that, and I've done business with him. On the contrary, he seemed to be very humble and knowledgeable, and has a great deal of experience and background in the topic of Mopar vehicle documentation, construction techniques and factory operations. If you are challenging his expertise and fitness to provide this service, I think you need to bring more to the conversation than "he screwed up LOL". Give me facts and specifics. Please put it all out there for everyone to read, as I have. Thank you.
 
My 1970 Swinger 340 has all of the documentation you mentioned. I found the build sheet, 100% legible, under the back seat. I have all the documents the car originally came with, including the owner's manual, the original braking factory documents, the correct fender tag, and the "hidden" VIN's in the correct location. The factory VIN dash tag is original, with the correct "rosette" fasteners. I will never share any of these numbers on the interweb. NEVER! These numbers are readily available on the web. I'll never put my car's numbers at risk, unless I trust them implicitly, and then only with encrypted email. This man has a questionable history, in my opinion. Please safeguard your information. I'm not trying to piss off anyone, but I've been attempted to have been scammed many times. I know it's not a Hemi "Cuda convertible", but please protect your information.
 
My 1970 Swinger 340 has all of the documentation you mentioned. I found the build sheet, 100% legible, under the back seat. I have all the documents the car originally came with, including the owner's manual, the original braking factory documents, the correct fender tag, and the "hidden" VIN's in the correct location. The factory VIN dash tag is original, with the correct "rosette" fasteners. I will never share any of these numbers on the interweb. NEVER! These numbers are readily available on the web. I'll never put my car's numbers at risk, unless I trust them implicitly, and then only with encrypted email. This man has a questionable history, in my opinion. Please safeguard your information. I'm not trying to piss off anyone, but I've been attempted to have been scammed many times. I know it's not a Hemi "Cuda convertible", but please protect your information.
Just to be sure, when you said that "this man has a questionable history", who is it that you're referring to? Thanks.
 
He is the one that screwed up, so you need to ask him in your own words - "Why did he screw up?"

I do not make tags fake or otherwise.

I have never done business with him and I never have plans too.

I have outed many fake tags for potential buyers before so they know not to spend their money on a car with bogus documentation.

Will I tell you or him where he screwed up?

No.

Could I prove he screwed up if it ever came to a court case?

Absolutely.

There are several outfits making fake fender tags and guess what?

They lurk on forums to gain information.

So will I mention the screw ups so those losers can learn from it?

No, I will not.

Hopefully they eventually destroy their own reputations and no one uses their 'services' anymore.
 
He is the one that screwed up, so you need to ask him in your own words - "Why did he screw up?"

I do not make tags fake or otherwise.

I have never done business with him and I never have plans too.

I have outed many fake tags for potential buyers before so they know not to spend their money on a car with bogus documentation.

Will I tell you or him where he screwed up?

No.

Could I prove he screwed up if it ever came to a court case?

Absolutely.

There are several outfits making fake fender tags and guess what?

They lurk on forums to gain information.

So will I mention the screw ups so those losers can learn from it?

No, I will not.

Hopefully they eventually destroy their own reputations and no one uses their 'services' anymore.
 
So many falsehoods and distortions here, so where do we even start? Oh well, here goes. First, you again fail to provide a single shred of evidence (or proof) of what you're accusing him of. Only accusations backed up with nothing. And you cannot take nothing to the "court case" that you refer to because you'll lose. Next, you say that you don't make "fake" tags. Define "fake". Is a date coded replacement windshield a "fake" windshield? Is a repro fuel filter that I buy at the car show a "fake" filter because it has a 1973 date code painted on it? Is the new fender that you buy from AMD a "fake" fender because it isn't the one the car came with when new? And are all repro fender tags "fake"? Why? Are any of your approved fender tags "non-fake" because you've decided that you like the company that they came from. So instead of throwing around baseless accusations and innuendo, I'll give you the facts exactly as I encountered them. I have done business with them twice. Both transactions were polite, professional and timely. And that's a lot more than I can say for many of the vendors that I've encountered in my 35 years in the hobby. Regarding the replacement fender tag they made for me, everything was completely honest and above the board. He insisted on rock solid documentation prior to making the replacement tag, and made it very clear to me that he would in no way alter or change anything from what was indicated on the build sheet and window sticker. Totally honest and professional. How is that fake? If that's your definition of fake, then my paint job, engine, tires, oil filter, windshield, hood, battery, carpets, windshield washer fluid, air in my tires, spark plugs, transmission gasket set, trunk carpet, gas in the tank, air filter, my most recent haircut, fuel filter, and one hundred seventy five other items on my car are all "fake". So your solution to my missing tag would to just leave a blank space on the inner fender with two screw holes when a perfectly legal, legitimate and honest solution is readily available? Really? To me, that's just plain stupid.
 
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If it makes you feel better, I agree with you Bob .
You are doing a restoration on a ‘74 Valiant and not trying to make a clone to pawn off on some unsuspecting collector . As if one even exists.

On the other hand I have all the paperwork on my ‘66 Dart that I bought new oh and the car too . Oh and the vehicle certicard still in the holder on the inner fender .

BTW where are the cookies ? Me want cookies !
 
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You are spot on Bob. To me "fake" has an element of dishonesty. If a dude has a reproduction tag made that does not mis-represent the vehicle in question and is backed up by things such as a build sheet, body stamping, original paint, and a dash vin...Well to me that's not fake. These things went missing in the past 50 years, and no-one cared back then.
 
If it makes you feel better, I agree with you Bob .
You are doing a restoration on a ‘74 Valiant and not trying to make a clone to pawn off on some unsuspecting collector . As if one even exists.

On the other hand I have all the paperwork on my ‘66 Dart that I bought new oh and the car too . Oh and the vehicle certicard still in the holder on the inner fender .

BTW where are the cookies ? Me want cookies !
Thanks, and you may have as many cookies as you like!
 
You are spot on Bob. To me "fake" has an element of dishonesty. If a dude has a reproduction tag made that does not mis-represent the vehicle in question and is backed up by things such as a build sheet, body stamping, original paint, and a dash vin...Well to me that's not fake. These things went missing in the past 50 years, and no-one cared back then.
Thanks. I couldn't agree with you more. People have been making honest and legitimate replacement fender tags for years, and they provide an important service to our hobby. I'm thankful for them. And yes, you can always find a dishonest vendor out there if you look hard enough. But that doesn't mean I'm going to throw everyone else under the bus. Shop carefully, do your homework, check them out and then buy with confidence when they're legit. And one more thing: Don't let some self appointed "expert" on this forum tell you what to do or how to think. I'm not an expert on anything, just a guy who wants to share whatever I've learned with my Mopar buddies via the twenty nine component resto installments I've posted on FABO. And thanks for the backup. I appreciate it!
 
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He is the one that screwed up, so you need to ask him in your own words - "Why did he screw up?"

I do not make tags fake or otherwise.

I have never done business with him and I never have plans too.

I have outed many fake tags for potential buyers before so they know not to spend their money on a car with bogus documentation.

Will I tell you or him where he screwed up?

No.

Could I prove he screwed up if it ever came to a court case?

Absolutely.

There are several outfits making fake fender tags and guess what?

They lurk on forums to gain information.

So will I mention the screw ups so those losers can learn from it?

No, I will not.

Hopefully they eventually destroy their own reputations and no one uses their 'services' anymore.
Over the years, I've looked at much of your information and verified it. You provide many honest services and information. Much respect sent, Sir. You are one of a few I would trust you with my VIN/buildsheet information. Please continue your fine work, and let me know if I can help you with information on 1970 Swinger 340's. Paul.
 
Gee I wonder if one could make a fender tag that would reflect the mods made ?
Say on my ‘66 if I install a ‘73 360 and a ‘78 A 904 and a 8 1/4” Suregrip and 3.23 and ‘73 up front disc brakes big bolt pattern 15” Rally wheels 10” rear drums front and rear anti sway bars fuel injection in addition to all the other o.e. Equipment all ready on it ? Also two tone paint a Toyota white and a fleet color turquoise from some city in Florida ,wonder what the code would be for that :)

Of course the tag would be true but would it be fake ?

BTW more cookies please .
 
Gee I wonder if one could make a fender tag that would reflect the mods made ?
Say on my ‘66 if I install a ‘73 360 and a ‘78 A 904 and a 8 1/4” Suregrip and 3.23 and ‘73 up front disc brakes big bolt pattern 15” Rally wheels 10” rear drums front and rear anti sway bars fuel injection in addition to all the other o.e. Equipment all ready on it ? Also two tone paint a Toyota white and a fleet color turquoise from some city in Florida ,wonder what the code would be for that :)

Of course the tag would be true but would it be fake ?

BTW more cookies please .
It would be difficult to get someone to make a fender tag reflecting your mods. But if you could, sure - go ahead and do it as long as you're up front with people at car shows and when the car sells. Keep the original fender tag, and if (and when) you sell the car, I'd tell potential buyers that the car also comes with the correct original fender tag. That way, there's no misrepresentation and no falsifying what you're showing or selling. It's YOUR car and YOU get to decide what to do with it. YOU have to be happy with what you look at in your garage every day of the year, not some online fender tag police. As long as it's honest and up front, sure - I'd say do it. BTW, the turquoise color code I'd recommend is Q4 Light Turquoise metallic, like the 69 Charger below. Cookies are on the way!

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Beautiful car! I didn't mean to contribute to any hurt feelings on this thread, but I've had several people call me to look at fender tags and VIN's. I'm no expert, but easy frauds are pretty easy to spot. I'm restoring my 1970 Swinger 340, and was afraid to remove the fender tag, because I mistakenly thought the phillips screws were "Rosette" screws, like the VIN dash tag. Members here corrected me. Now I feel better about removing the fender tag for painting underhood. Thanks, FABO!
 
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