1. DentalDart

    DentalDart Well-Known Member

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    So I just bought a 69 Dart Custom, but it's been tinkered with from previous owners.

    I would like to redo the brakes. Fronts drums are stamped 10.090, so those are 10s when purchasing shoes.

    However, the rears had no stamps on them or any other markings. On the outer rims of the rear drums measure pretty close to 11in but I thought 11s were not on the dart, so I'm a little lost. They also don't seem as wide as the fronts.

    Maybe someone here knows, or can point me in the direction? Oh, also self adjusting drum brake or non for new hardware?

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  2. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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    Pull the rear drum and measure the inside diameter of the drum and the width of the shoes that are on it now and report back. Drum brakes are all measured by there inside diameter of the friction surface of the drum.

    Look in your factory service manual to see if you have auto adjusters front and back. I think you would.

    As to replace all the hardware or not? if it is in visually good shape, not bent, rusted behond cleanup, missing no real reason to replace (BUT... for the expense it might be worth it to have a base line of known good parts.)

    Lastly... front brakes do most of the stopping so it is not uncommon to have larger and wider brakes on the front then the rear.
     
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    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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    • DentalDart

      DentalDart Well-Known Member

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      • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
      • Murray

        Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Those are 10". Drums are measured on the inside diameter not the outside.
         
      • DentalDart

        DentalDart Well-Known Member

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        You sir are correct! Thank you!

        I literally just put the rear end back together, 10 in drum brakes (internal diameter) with 5 x 4 bolt pattern (unfortunately).

        Opening it up was dirt galore, spider webs and brake dust everywhere haha.

        Trying to decide if I should get new drums too now. A complete drum kit would be awesome but haven't found one anywhere, this would prevent me from forgetting to purchase something .
         
      • rustycowll69

        rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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        just remember, long shoe to the rear, shorter shoe to the front of each corner
         
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        • Mattax

          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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          Get yourself a factory shop manual. Bishko and a few others have print versions. CDs and downloads are another option.
          Know that 1969 was the first model year for a new system of drum hardware. Can't ref '68 for drawings or parts.
          Don't use compressed air for cleaning brake dust, just wash it down.
          A few specialized tools help, although I got away with not having for a long time.
           
        • mobileparts

          mobileparts Well-Known Member

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          I have New brake drums -- 10" x 2 1/4" for the Fronts
          And 10" x 1 3/4" for the Rears -- and
          ++ N.O.S. ++ Asbestos ++ brake shoes for Fronts & Rears -- which will give you nice Smooooooth
          Braking -- and doesn't rip up brake drums like the new garbage of today does.......
           
        • DentalDart

          DentalDart Well-Known Member

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          I have a factory print 69 manual. Wash, yes the whole engine bay and undercarriage needs a good wash. I'm going to try and get away with washing it in my neighborhood... Dang HOA.

          I don't understand the NOS and Abestos portion lol.

          I'm thinking I'm going to do Disc fronts and redo the drums in the rear until I swap in my new front end and 8 3/4 rear with a 489 rear.
           
        • Murray

          Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Asbestos lining material- if you want it- it must be NOS. This material is illegal with good reason. If you like cancer, then by all means use it. Its performance is no better than any of the options available today.
           
        • Mattax

          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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          Not what I'm talking about. When you take the drums off, or when when working on disks, you'll find much dust gnerated that has stuck around.
          Don't blow it, wash it.
          New Old Stock. Traditionally referred to original factory parts, but now often refers to any unused (new) old stock. In other words, older parts store replacements.
          Asbestos is a mineral product that is an excellent insulator. In ref to brake linings, it was frequently used in the compounds but generally fell out of use by the end of the 1980s. When the fibers are loose and floating around in the air they can get into people lungs - and then cause major problems. hence my first advice about washing down with brake cleaner - and not to blow it with air. That's true no matter what type of lining you're dealing with. Dont want to breathe any of it.
          I think you should learn to replace the linings and hardware first. Also learn to bleed the system. No reason to make the learning curve steeper than it is.
          Get the right parts, follow the books, do it, learn as you go. The 10" brakes will perform fine when they're working right. Road racing, hauling a trailer, or long down hills is where the ability of the disks to disapate the heat comes into play.
           
          Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
        • Dana67Dart

          Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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          Be proud of your 5X4s especially if you have left hand treads on the left side! anyone can have 5 x 4 1/2 and right hand threads!


          While I don't usually buy from rock auto (I just need the instant gratification) they do have A LOT of parts. The below link is for a 69 Dart with a 318, but a kit is available.

          1969 DODGE DART 5.2L 318cid V8 Drum Brake Hardware Kit | RockAuto

          Classic industries, Year One, Ebay and a ton of online re-sellers stock parts for our cars. the first step is to get the part number. Heck your local auto parts store can usually get many of these parts too.


          Depending on what/how you get/put together your 8 3/4, your 5x4 10 x 1-3/4 brakes will swap over.

          Disks up front, there is more to it than adding the disks, master cylinder, proportioning valve etc also need to be changed. possible suspension parts depending on the swap you do.

          Lastly unless you are going to me making GOBBS of power any of the center sections will do fine. Your choice should be more driven by what gear ratio you want to run (I'm referring to new gears that I have found) 741 is limited to 2 or so ratios, 742 has 5 or more, 489 a few more.


          As to new drums... 10x1-3/4 (I am assuming that is what size you have) are not as plentiful as other sizes BUT they are available. If your drums can be turned within safe specs do that. Unless this will be your daily driver they will probably last you a decade or more. 2017 I put 1000 miles on my dart 2018 600 miles and I drive it monthly.

          Online reference materials:
          MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - MyMopar Tools/Reference

          As corny as these videos are they are very useful.
          MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Browse MTSC by Topic

          1969 Parts book (PDF download)
          http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/partscatalogs/68_Mopar_Parts_Catalog.zip

          1969 Factory Service Manual (FSM) (PDF download)
          http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1969_Charger_Coronet_Dart_Service_Manual.zip
           
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          • mobileparts

            mobileparts Well-Known Member

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            Murray -- we know ++ Asbestos ++ is illegal because of its carcinogenic characteristics ---
            But it IS 50 times better than this new garbage they are forced to sell -- and if you FEEL the difference,
            You would agree.
            But you Californians are always quick to point out it's negative environmental properties...
            I say "the heck with that -- I would prefer to have the most quality braking in all of my rides!!!"
            And hundreds of thousands who beg me to find it AGREE -- we were all just at Chryslers @ Carlisle in Pennsylvania....
             
          • DentalDart

            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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            My apologies I was driving this morning when I replied. I am so we agreeing that I need to clean the brakes, then also I need to clean the whole engine bay and undercarriage as it is pretty dirty.

            New old stock, gotcha, I understand that .I've been on car forums before and often times there is heckling of the new members/dumb questions and wasn't sure if nos and asbestos was heckling.

            I have an ok understanding of cars, have bled brakes before, replaced discs and pads before just never have owned a car with drum brakes, so figuring it out is new to me. I've also never had a car 2x as old as me haha.

            Drums would probably be fine but I'd like to get new drums, shoes and all the rebuild kits that way everything is new and I know it's working properly for when I am driving my kids around in the car. Knowing I'll do discs eventually, I'm debating if I should just spend the couple extra dollars and do the fronts now .
             
          • DentalDart

            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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            Thanks! Really great information from everyone and I appreciate it.

            My 8 3/4 will get my 489 with 3.23 gears third member. I like my current wheels so I may try and stay with the bolt pattern, I know there are a couple of complete disc swap kits to keep the 5x4 bolt pattern that come with the MC, booster, spindles, etc etc.

            Time to start ordering parts :)
             
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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            Rather than aftermarket disk you could go with stock Kelsey Hayes disk. All the needed parts are available to do the swap.

            If you don't have power brakes now go manual. You will not notice the difference.

            By the way, no one on here will ever rib a new member.:rofl:
             
          • DentalDart

            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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            I am pretty sure I already have all the parts needed to do the swap. Just would need new rotors and pads, lines, proportioning valve, MC and possibly booster.

            calipers.jpg

            Extra Front End.jpg
             
          • DentalDart

            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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            Also would have to swap to a 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern wheel which my wife would kill me if she saw new wheels and tires show up at the house... :elmer:
             
          • Dana67Dart

            Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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            Just got the record those are the later years I don't know if a 5x4 drum or hub is available for them.

            Just saw your last post. You have done your homework:)
             
          • DentalDart

            DentalDart Well-Known Member

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            Well some homework haha, I am on here all day long when I don't have a pt at school and when the wife and kids go to bed. I told my wife all the car needed was brakes and the top installed and it was ready to go....Well I'm trying to not get beat up by the wife by having tons of parts show up, but it is looking like it may be inevitable. So either 1500 for 5x4 disc brake set up or 1500 for wheels and 5.4.5 disc set up lol.
             
          • Mattax

            Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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            Manual disk brakes require more pedal force and a different touch.
            You have your mind made up, so good luck.
             
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            • DentalDart

              DentalDart Well-Known Member

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              I think my mind is at the WTF do I do right now haha. So much stuff I want to do and buy.

              My apologies for the dumb questions and sounding like I know what I want and or know.
               
            • Dana67Dart

              Dana67Dart Like a fine wine, only getting better with age! FABO Gold Member

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              It is really easy to get overwhelmed. My recommendation is get it driving and safe. Enjoy it for a time.Then replace one system at a time. Think can I take parts of on a Friday night and have it running Monday morning. Sometimes you might need an entire week between. But I know from experience if you start taking things apart without a deadline to get it back together sometimes it becomes overwhelming.
               
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              • DentalDart

                DentalDart Well-Known Member

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                That's a good way of thinking about it.

                I'm just in the spot where I know I should upgrade to 4.5 bbp and do discs for that, but to do that it would be brakes, axles (for rear end), wheels and tires. So mainly just a pricey upgrade .

                Was thinking about doing the rear shoes and hardware then the ssbc front disc kit be. This would allow me to swap over to the 4.5 down the line and would work with my 14in wheels for now. I like the willwoods but they won't fit my 14in ralley wheels.

                Looked at summit with the Right Stuff kit, but I haven't seen that many reviews of them around here or bbodies forum .

                The piratejack kit has also caught my eye, but it comes with a bunch of parts I already have lying in my garage haha. The only thing is a proportioning valve, mc, and booster run close to 300, then add lines pads and calipers you might as well buy a kit with new parts .

                20190712_163637.jpg
                 
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