Buddies 170 is a DOG!

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pishta

pishta

I know I'm right....
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60 auto motor in a 67 Valiant..We tuned it as well as we could. New plugs, has ECU already, rotor, cap, wires, timed it to about 2.5 BTDC as the '60 specs say (the mark on the timing cover is not real visible, but there is one about 1/2" under a "0" we saw) a few degrees either way didnt seem to change much of anything. He has an unknown model BBD on top of an 2-1 adapter to a 1bbl intake, not the best but there are no leaks. We fixed the accelerator pump shooter that was plugged so we now dont have a bog but this motor is a slug. No working kickdown either (just bought it so he has lots to fix) but even in low, this car could only make about 10mph up a ~25% grade. The vacuum is at 15 at idle, drops to <5 when he revs. the distributor is hooked up to manifold vacuum off the carter carb. Does it need to be ported vacuum? I ran into this once and cant remember what vacuum worked best. The motor is tired, only 90 psi on #1, probably the same in all the rest as it idles pretty smooth. He adjusted the valves and has yet to get back to me but are there any theories on what we should be looking for? Choke is all off at hot. Stumped but never worked on/driven a 170...probably a 2.76 rear. Thanks.
 
wow something is sure dragging it down..... slack/wore/tired timing chain maybe...is the rear end holding it back wore out bearings on the pinion or axles brakes dragging, could the trans be dragging it down.
This year model trans has a external filter that looks like a gas filter..
Sorry pishta, I hope a good /6 tec can jump in here and shed some lite on this for you.
 
Im sure the chain is beat. How do you install the dampers with no bolt? Are they even threaded? I just didnt think the chain could be the end all killer, didnt seem to ping. I wish I could have spent more time out there with him but its not his driver so he's not stuck.
 
I'm gonna post the smart *** answer you know is coming: It's a 170. Not exactally a racing spec big block.

I'm sure it needs to be rebuilt before she runs right. As stated before, play with the timing chain. :D
 
pishta said:
are there any theories on what we should be looking for?
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Yes: You should be looking for a cheap 225 replacement motor. You have already done everything humanly possible to make that poor little feller run decently and it would seem that it is just TOO FAR GONE to perform well without a replacement 225.

People are giving them away every day...



Even if he is bucks down, you should be able to fix this...

I have every confidence that you will...:cheers:
 
The old gal sounds tired, but it at all possible I would put a 1 barrel back on it.
And check out the distributor very close, make sure the advance weights are not stuck.
With the compression you have it should at least run at highway speeds.
 
That is why I ditched the 170 in my 62 valiant--- could not get up to speed on flat ground (Kansas is know for flatness) . I had it tuned well-- healthy motor-- but pulling into traffic on the way to /from work was scary!! Lawrence
 

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Bad Sport said:
25% grade? That's steep.
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Probably not even 12%, but still...it cruises on flat road, but hills, fagetaboutit! The mech advance seems to work as the timing mark moved about an inch when we revved it without vacuum. We ran it without the vacuum advance hooked up for 2 miles and it didnt seem to be any worse... We got a bead on a free 225 so I think he is done with the little ringless 170. Ill snag it to mess with, and I need an extra head to fab up my EFI intake anyway. In hindsight, I almost gave a way a .030 over 225 short block earlier this year........Thanks.
 
My 170 is tired. But I tuned it up a bit. Set the lash to factory minus .005". I curved the distributor and set it up so it's 12° at idle (timed with the vacuum dashpot disconnected), 38° total, all in by 2300, with the vacuum to ported. It's responsive as it can be. But still gutless. Which was why I found a 225 for it.
 
Geez, it seems like it's got quite a bit working against it. Freeway gears, no kickdown, low compression, an oversize carb and a worn timing chain....not to mention lousy initial timing. I'd probably give it at least 12~15 degrees initial advance and cross my fingers. That's a small motor....170 = 2.8 liters!

I think those are great motors for long distance flat cruising, like for a traveling salesman back in the day, wanting the best mileage possible.
 
I didn't realize the smaller slants were that bad? My 66 225 slant will roast one tire for a mile it seems from a standstill. Now it has the little stock 13"s on it and by all means no contest to most cars on the road but it's kinda fun winding her up getting on the highway. Maybe play with the ignition timing more that always seemed to make my little "Whitey" go!
 
OK, will forward the advance weights check. The 1960 tune up specs were 2 1/2 degrees BTDC and you are suggesting 12? OK, ported vacuum on a Carter BBD, ill check if it has a port. Would we have to skip a tooth on the distributor to get 12 as the range is somewhat limited on these distributors? Thanks!
 
pishta said:
60 auto motor in a 67 Valiant..We tuned it as well as we could. New plugs, has ECU already, rotor, cap, wires, timed it to about 2.5 BTDC as the '60 specs say (the mark on the timing cover is not real visible, but there is one about 1/2" under a "0" we saw) a few degrees either way didnt seem to change much of anything. He has an unknown model BBD on top of an 2-1 adapter to a 1bbl intake, not the best but there are no leaks. We fixed the accelerator pump shooter that was plugged so we now dont have a bog but this motor is a slug. No working kickdown either (just bought it so he has lots to fix) but even in low, this car could only make about 10mph up a ~25% grade. The vacuum is at 15 at idle, drops to <5 when he revs. the distributor is hooked up to manifold vacuum off the carter carb. Does it need to be ported vacuum? I ran into this once and cant remember what vacuum worked best. The motor is tired, only 90 psi on #1, probably the same in all the rest as it idles pretty smooth. He adjusted the valves and has yet to get back to me but are there any theories on what we should be looking for? Choke is all off at hot. Stumped but never worked on/driven a 170...probably a 2.76 rear. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Random thoughts off the top of my head:
Hopefully the valves have been adjusted correctly. All 6 cylinders should be checked for compression.
Distributor vacuum advance should be connected to "ported vacuum".
For tuning purposes,I would take the vacuum advance out of the equation,and plug it at the carb. Slants like 30deg max of total timing. Set the total timing first. At this point,whatever the initial is,it is. Make sure the distributor is dropped in where it should be. Put the motor on TDC (compression stroke)and make sure the rotor is pointing at the no.1 tower on the cap. Make sure plug wires are in the correct order. Sounds like you have all new ignition parts,but the ignition is where I would start first. Then I would go to the carburetor.
 
It was a couple years ago but I believe I elongated the adjustment slot or trimmed the end to get the extra. Give it all you can and it will not hurt it. I used a V8 light advance spring in place of the stiff factory one to get the centrifical in earlier too.
 
moper said:
It was a couple years ago but I believe I elongated the adjustment slot or trimmed the end to get the extra. Give it all you can and it will not hurt it. I used a V8 light advance spring in place of the stiff factory one to get the centrifical in earlier too.
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I was going to suggest that. Change the springs I do that to all my mopars electronic or points. And I don't bother running the vacuum advance. Then crank up the timing while its off idle. BIG difference in slant performance! Mine goes full advance at like 1200rpm or something. Check the valves too. I like to tighten mine by ear while it's running then go back and just make sure they are not too tight.
 
that dist-- has 2 slots--- the one you can see & one on the underside of the dist, should have plenty of adjustment. i believe i used to run around 12-14 btdc on my 62--- & 30ish total -- more than that it started to ping---

as stated b4 a 170 is not going to have much torque-- but will cruise hi-way fine-- just getting up to speed is the issue. Lawrence
 
All good ideas, hopefully my friend is monitoring this thread. Took us 10 minutes to even find tdc as the pulley and cover were painted over the marks smooth.
 
Red 5 standing by...

Yup, monitoring and paying attention..

Ran the valves hot just like the SlantSix dot org post says (messy, but it worked for a first timer like me.. Turning a wrench while it's moving a few inches in your hand is ... interesting! Didn't appear to have any means of adjustment other than the nut up top..

For the numbers hounds, the head is a 2121476-2.. Couldn't find it online, but I was searching on my phone at the time.. A quick google search just now yielded nada, either..

I'll be doing the HEI upgrade soon enough.. Anything that can be upgraded (and used on the new 225) will be .. :)

Raj
73 Slantillac.. 73 Dart + 68 Valiant + 64 Cadillac fins.. [ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/57785272@N00/sets/72157632353884166/"]73 Dart-illac - a set on Flickr[/ame]
67 Valiant V100 (170/3-on-the-tree manual, exploded view - suspension)
67 Barracuda (360/904/RIP 04/01/2001 to 04/25/2009)
 
pishta,
I also wonder about the "no bolt" crank in my 64 slant. I have a spare 74 slant and which has a crank bolt, plus bolt-on pully with 2 grooves. I will need the pulley for my AC upgrade, so will try to figure that out in the future.

PM me if interested in the extra 74 parts I don't need. My wife just told me we are going to Disneyland near you in 2 weeks. I can sell cheap - electronic distributor, electric choke w/ thermal sensor, snorkle air cleaner w/ heat tube and exhaust duct. Also Mopar ECU and connector harness don't need, since going GM HEI. Those were from PickNPull. Probably have extra GM HEI stuff too.
 
Cool, eh?

8313727924_8c43148052_m.jpg
 
Too funny-- I just got those same exact items from a 74 Dart in the Ecology auto yard in Wilmington (about 25 minutes north of Disneyland).. Electronic Distributor, factory electric choke, air cleaner with heat tube (exhaust duct was rotted pretty bad, so I left it).. Also nabbed the 1bbl linkage so I can get the slantillac back to 1bbl running status..

I too am going HEI (just placed an order with Trailbeast yesterday)..

And, more pics of the car are at

[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/57785272@N00/sets/72157632353884166/detail/"]73 Dart-illac - a set on Flickr[/ame]

BillGrissom said:
pishta,
I also wonder about the "no bolt" crank in my 64 slant. I have a spare 74 slant and which has a crank bolt, plus bolt-on pully with 2 grooves. I will need the pulley for my AC upgrade, so will try to figure that out in the future.

PM me if interested in the extra 74 parts I don't need. My wife just told me we are going to Disneyland near you in 2 weeks. I can sell cheap - electronic distributor, electric choke w/ thermal sensor, snorkle air cleaner w/ heat tube and exhaust duct. Also Mopar ECU and connector harness don't need, since going GM HEI. Those were from PickNPull. Probably have extra GM HEI stuff too.
Click to expand...
 
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