Calling all gen 3 hemi gurus

Discussion in 'New Hemi Engine Swaps' started by 408 swinger, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. 408 swinger

    408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    What causes the needles to fail in the lifters? I know the lifters are the last in line for oil. I have disassembled a few of these now, half have lifter issues. What say the "experts"? Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Hellcat Cuda

    Hellcat Cuda Well-Known Member

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    I've had a number of lifter / cam failures in my patrol cars at work (5.7s) Chrysler has never acknowledged any "why", only that the lifters failed and (usually) wiped out the cam. They've always been under warranty, including one that had the problem twice. I would like to have done a little research as to which lifters (regular or MDS) failed; whether intake or exhaust; which cylinders, etc but just have not had the time. I send someone to go get the car and get it back into service. I don't know if Chrysler has the dealers documenting that kind of information back to them or not.
     
  3. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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    I tried to disassemble some magnum lifters and found it to be very difficult. Can you put up some photos maybe some tricks getting the snap rings/ rollers out?
     
  4. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FABO Gold Member

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    What year/size 5.7, 6.1, ? As mentioned, MDS ? VVT ?
     
  5. 408 swinger

    408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Seems to be all years 5.7. I thought at first just the MDS intake lifters. I have disassembled an 06(MDS), a 2011(MDS), and a 2013(MDS). All had bad intake lifters, wiping out the camshaft, too. Now I have an 05 2500 in the shop (non-MDS) with 4 lifters on the right bank wiped out. Intake and exhaust. Engine was already a re-man. Was wondering what parts to use gonig back together. Truck probably won't last long enough to wear out another set, but, want to do this right.
     
  6. RealWing

    RealWing Well-Known Member

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  7. turbofreek

    turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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    i bought the g3 lifters and not stock rollers. just to make sure i didnt break a 1200 cam and 800 dollar lifters or worse.
    piece o mind vs pieces of engine.

    i think it also has to do with machining and pushrod length to non adjustable rockers being a big factor. they have a window of acceptable tolerance which is or can be say off from on end of the block to the other.
     
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    • 408 swinger

      408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Good article. But, like you said, they give a cure, not a cause. I understand the tick, but, not the roller failure. Maybe just a lack of maintenance.
       
    • Edsrt

      Edsrt Active Member

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      I acquired a 2012 5.7 Ram engine with a #5 intake lifter failure. Opon disassembly I found other cam lobes showing signs of wear witch leads me to think it is an oil issue I know from working in a G M shop when they switched from a semi synthetic to a full synthetic oil lifter issues seam to dissipate. Plus I think today's bulk oils are crap. And as far as maintenance most people do not adhere to regular schedule, if they were on a 3000 mile interval they would do it at 6000, 5k would be 10k, 7500 would be 15k.
       
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      • turbofreek

        turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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        i know they also changed the rocker shafts as well. look at the huge holes the new style rocker shafts now all have on gen3 hemis. might also be a clue as the issues for oiling to thelifters.

        i am a big fan of mobile 1 full syn oils. also zinc addtives help as well.
        also depending on your climate look into 5w or 10w if it doesnt get below -20° as they offer more slippery support on wear parts. 0w is nice for freezing starts and all but dont do shit for performance engines.
         
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        • Wailin D

          Wailin D Member

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          Turbofreek, what lifters did you use? Thank you Realwing for the article.
          Wailin
           
        • dusted

          dusted FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I think some of it has to do with the low idle rpm these engines see, and low oil pressure during these conditions especially the cop cars with there extended idle times. I know that GM has had these failures on there LS engines in trucks but not the cars. I only difference I have seen is the idle rpm is increased by 100-150 rpm on the cars.
           
        • turbofreek

          turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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          g3 aftermarket lifters that are about 800 bucks a set. thye make the aftermarket aluminum blocks now for hhp.
           
        • dusted

          dusted FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Makes the new in box Mopar set I bought at Carlise for $100 the deal of a lifetime.
           
        • 408 swinger

          408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Yeah, lifters for these are not cheap.
           
        • loganscuda

          loganscuda DON’T reMember

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          I saw a video from Modern Muscle and they use the lifters from the Hellcat the roller is wider. Apparently the needles will lock up and stop spinning.
           
        • turbofreek

          turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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          just make sure they are not the chinese lifters or they will cost you much more in a very short run time.
           
        • dusted

          dusted FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          There factory new in Mopar box. We will see as I will be putting them to the test for a winter project.
           
        • turbofreek

          turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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          check the actual part number on the lifters. then cross reference them with ma mopar or others forums with the chinese lifter failures
           
        • Hellcat Cuda

          Hellcat Cuda Well-Known Member

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          I know the OEM lifters (new in the box) in '06 LOOKED like machined pieces of art and came out of Germany. Don't know where the OEMs come from now. However, we've had a late model patrol car down since early September because of what the parts manager called a "Galaxial back order" (lololol) on them. As of a few days ago, he still has no projections on when they'll receive the lifters, even with a special "patrol car down" notice in with Chrysler. The cam is ok in this car because we caught the squeak early. It just needs lifters. They've always gotten my cam/lifter warranty work out within a few days.
           
          Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
        • turbofreek

          turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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          tell them about hhp g3 line of aftermarket lifters. well crap i guess you cant cuz they are non vvt lifters
           
        • replicaracer43

          replicaracer43 Old school member

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          In the ones I've torn down, it appears the cam lobe starts to fail BEFORE the lifter, you can see metal flecks coming off the lobes. I believe the camshaft material is to blame, (soft) a new camshaft from chrysler is like 85 dollars, what does that tell ya?
           
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          • Hellcat Cuda

            Hellcat Cuda Well-Known Member

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            Thanks, but yeah, we need the VVT lifters and it's under warranty, so the dealer can't / won't put other than OEM parts in it. If it weren't under warranty and we took it to our contract shop, we could put aftermarket parts in if need be.
             
          • Hellcat Cuda

            Hellcat Cuda Well-Known Member

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            I would really like to know, but from what I've seen of these cars, taking a fairly quick look at the parts that came out (no long inspection or microscopes), it's the lifters that go south. We've caught some real early on (current one included) and the came shows only normal wear pattern where the rollers roll. Once they start to not roll, then the cam starts to wear away. Had a cam lobe once that had a roller groove about 1/4" deep. Would help if the guys would tell me earlier when the engine starts to make noise, but they have other concerns on their mind. lolol
             
          • replicaracer43

            replicaracer43 Old school member

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            I did 2 of them back to back a year or so ago, and there was lobe deterioration on lifters that still rolled smooth, that's where I felt it was a soft lobe problem. I'm no scientist though, lol
             
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