1. Hellrats

    Hellrats Just another dumbass

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    Lunati Voodoo 703 will be too big for that 2400 converter. That gear will kill it too. Go with a 3.55 gear or so with the Lunati Voodoo 703 and use a GOOD 3000 stall converter. I have one right now with a 3500 stall and it's a hell of a lot of fun and very drivable. If I take it apart again... hope not... I will try a 3000 stall. Any 268 grind is iffy with that combo. I have tried different "268" cams with 2400 stall convertors and they are just to tight. Converters have came a lot way in a few years. Don't be afraid to let that engine get to the cam.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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      That’s so true. A good converter will drive normal and yet hit good when it’s time.
       
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      • Bewy

        Bewy Well-Known Member

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        David Vizard, author of 30+ auto books & over 4000 magazine articles has some good advice:
        [1] The right cam cost the same as the wrong cam
        [2] Getting the LSA too wide will cost more tq than getting it too tight
        [3] if you want a smoother idle you do NOT widen the LSA; you reduce duration
        Why listen to DV? He dyno tested over 19000 cams. When I find someone who has tested more, then I will take their advice....
        The 5500rpm limit is imposed by the Edel Perf intake, not the cam. Might actually be a tad less with a 360, like 5300-5400. It would be stupid to install a 6500 rpm cam in a 5500 rpm engine. Very easy to over-cam an engine. Then the nonsense of using a hi stall c'ter to 'fix' the too-big cam. You don't need a hi stall c'ter with a 5400 top end. This is a cruiser with economy as some importance.
        DVs 128 rule calculates the LSA as 108 for a 360 with 2.02 int valves.
        Isky has a perfect shelf grind, the 270 mega. 221 @ 050, 108 LSA.
         
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        • roccodart440

          roccodart440 Well-Known Member

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          #1 and #2

          #3 isn't cut and dry.... There is a reason the factory cuts on a wide LSA and if you are running a larger duration but want a better idle, a wider LSA will help.

          LSA also has another function, lower LSA will increase cylinder pressure, higher will reduce it.
           
        • 12many

          12many Well-Known Member

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          Get something around 262-270 advertised, 214-221 @.050” max on a 106 LSA stuffed in at about 102 ICL or even less depending on running calculations. Now that the relentless crusades of “get a real Chrysler fast lobe cam” chatter seems to have mostly disappeared here lately, getting back to considering running a good old fashioned cam from any of the various companies out there has become fashionable again. If I were in your shoes, I would call Isky or better yet Schneider (they may still have a few cores) and see what they come up with for you with the gear etc you have. They both offer old fashioned service, and produce a fine product. :thumbsup:

          Example, they can put it on a tighter LSA
          LA Small Block Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft
           
          Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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          • aaronk785

            aaronk785 Well-Known Member

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            My friend has the lunati 702 in a stock 340. It's runs strong with 3.55s.
             
          • Bewy

            Bewy Well-Known Member

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            Post #29.
            Yes, there was a reason the factory [ some, not all ] used wide LSAs. At the time, they didn't know any better!! Knowledge has been gained since.
            You only have to look at a MP catalog cam listing to see this:
            - slant 6: 108-104 LSA
            - small block: one on 114, most on 108-112, one on 106
            - BB: 115 to 106
            - hemi: 106-104
             
          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            Higher LSA also enables more vacuum signal and allows vacuum accessories to be run more effortlessly.

            And I don't care WHO it is that argues for a narrow LSA. All things being equal, a wider LSA WILL HAVE a wider torque band. The peak won't be as high, but it will be a more broad curve. They each do have advantages.
             
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            • Brooks James

              Brooks James VET, CPT, Huey Medevac Pilot FABO Gold Member

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              Call some cam companies, thats all they do 24/7. For Mopar i would recommend Racer Brown
              Ps Gas mileage and great performance ?
              Be prepared to do lotsa tuning and trying different combos
               
              Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
            • roccodart440

              roccodart440 Well-Known Member

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              They are still using wide LSA's today, 117deg to be exact.

              LSA isn't a cookie cutter number that always equates to a lower angle is better. It affects the idle, the power curve and cylinder pressures, and in FI applications a wide LSA is needed for function.
               
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              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                Lest anyone forget forced induction, which almost always responds better to a wide LSA. Also, larger cubic inch stroker motors generally respond better to wider LSAs. So, I agree with you 100% that there really is no hard and fast rule. I really depends on the combination and what you're doing.
                 
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                • Brooks James

                  Brooks James VET, CPT, Huey Medevac Pilot FABO Gold Member

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                  Agree, i had my cam ground at 113.5 to maximize the nitrous, added Benefit, smoother idle
                   
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                  • K.O. SWINGER

                    K.O. SWINGER Meeting in the alley since 1976

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                    I'll throw the 270 Magnum in there. It's an old grind but will definitely work with your setup.
                     
                  • rumblefish360

                    rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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                  • Bewy

                    Bewy Well-Known Member

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                    My post #28.
                    [1] You guys should watch the Richard Holdener video, March 2020, where he tested three cams in an LS engine, identical except for LSA. 108, 112 & 120 LSA. 108 made more power everywhere.
                    [2] DVs SBC latest book has a list of cams, seven categories from the very mild Street & tow to Real Race. Guess what the LSA is for a Street & tow 400 engine? No, it's not 112 or 114. Try 105 LSA. What changes is the duration.
                    [3] Hot Rod Camshaft book, volume 11. Various cam tests, one LSA comparison. Identical Isky cams, except for LSA 106, 108, 110. "The 106 produced the most peak & average tq as well as the most average hp". The 110 made the most peak HP 583.6, up only 3 hp on the 106, but the 110 was down nearly 20 hp on the average numbers. I know which one I would be using...
                    [4] Last word to Sig Erson, of Erson cams: "The cam with closer lobe centers will always produce more power in the midrange than the a cam using the same profile & wide lobe center, & in many applications will produce more power all through the range depending on many variables such as the induction system, rod angularity & flow capacity of the ports."
                     
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                    • Tbro

                      Tbro Well-Known Member

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                      12many, shame on you for selling me an Isky Mega 280 on a 106. Now I get to have fun lol
                       
                    • 12many

                      12many Well-Known Member

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                      You get everything matched up you are gonna love it. “Addictive” is the word I’m thinking of! :steering:
                       
                    • rumblefish360

                      rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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                      Oooooooooooooo

                      Ton-O-Fun on the horizon…..
                       
                    • 12many

                      12many Well-Known Member

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                      Getting the right cam is what it’s all about!
                       
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                      • Jim Kueneman

                        Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        I think one thing that is missing from most of these LSA vs idle arguments is overlap. For those going for stump pullers and low overlap (equates to duration) it is not as important I don’t think. Those who like the longer duration numbers (more overlap) the argument becomes more valid.

                        from Vizards techniques you don’t pick durations. They fall out of LCA and overlap for what you are shooting for and the duration is what it is. My 225 has low LCA and low overlap and idles smoothly and pulls plenty of vacuum
                         
                      • Musk

                        Musk Member

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                        I called racer Brown. He gave me a choice on my combination. I ended up choosing the smallest one. It is a 220 at .050 with a 0.450 lift. 110 LSA. He also suggested a 9 to 1 compression which I am shooting for. I also picked up an RPM air gap intake. I also ordered 3.23 gears. Will be fun to see what happens.
                         
                      • Jim Kueneman

                        Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        I have been doing the math with Vizard's book so I am curious. What engine cubes and what intake valve diameter?
                         
                      • Brooks James

                        Brooks James VET, CPT, Huey Medevac Pilot FABO Gold Member

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                        Racer Brown makes damn Good Mopar camshafts !
                         
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                        • Musk

                          Musk Member

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                          360 .030 over with 2.02 1.6 valves
                           
                        • Jim Kueneman

                          Jim Kueneman FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          for CR 9.5-10.5 Vizard says LSA 107 and intake duration 225 degrees for a max grocery getter every day driving power.

                          225, 236, 244, 255, 266 intake duration take you from mild to wild (moves power band from low to high)

                          Lower CR drops the LSA a bit more. Valve angle and a few other second order effects could raise that number a bit.

                          The only engine that comes out to 110 is a 318 with 2.02 valves.

                          would love to do a serious controlled experiment with a dyno and various camshaft variables changed carefully!
                           
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