cam degreeing needed?

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Darren

Darren

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hey guys i am getting ready to install my new cam into my 68 383. the cam is a MP purple 68 RR cam. the car is a 68 cuda. it will be street driven only and i am using a new comp cam timming chain and sprokets. I really do not want to buy a degree kit for one use. what do you think thanks
 
It needs to be degreed.
 
They really do since the manufacturing tolerances can vary so much.
I think it was crackedback that turned me on to this one day when I asked that question.
I don't know if you need it, but it sure was a big help even though I probably had to read it three or five times to start understanding how it is done and why.
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/116_0701_how_to_degree_a_camshaft/viewall.html
 
Its cake walk once you do it, but yes crackedback help myself also, that guy is 1 knowledgeable guy, he helped me out on my little motor degree with a Mopar Cam, night and day difference, DEGREE it you'll be sorry you didnt, I'm breaking crap now because it pulls so much harder on low and mid range!!!!!! Lots of fun
 
muddog said:
Its cake walk once you do it, but yes crackedback help myself also, that guy is 1 knowledgeable guy, he helped me out on my little motor degree with a Mopar Cam, night and day difference, DEGREE it you'll be sorry you didnt, I'm breaking crap now because it pulls so much harder on low and mid range!!!!!! Lots of fun
Click to expand...

You are dead nuts 100% right! Rob (crackedback) is probably one of the most knowledgeable guys on here.......but you GOTTA listen to him. It never ceases to amaze me how many people ask his or other knowledgeable peoples' opinions and then turn around and do EXACTLY the opposite and wonder why they got bad results. It's crazy.
 
It depends on what you want. usually you degree a cam if you want to change the Cam timing.
Otherwise it is only a check if the factory specs are correct.
So you will install it at 0 position.
2° advanced brings you a bit more torque from the bottom and if you retard it, it will bring a bit more power at the top end.

Examples:

Advancing:

Begins Intake Event Sooner
Open Intake Valve Sooner
Builds More Low-End Torque
Decrease Piston-Intake Valve Clearance
Increase Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance

Retarding:

Delays Intake Closing Event
Keeps Intake Valve Open Later
Builds More High-RPM Power
Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance
Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance


But i´m sure you will be fine with 0 position
 
"usually you degree a cam if you want to change the Cam timing.
Otherwise it is only a check if the factory specs are correct."

I disagree. Degreeing is to make sure with the stacked tolerances and accuracy of machining on the block, crank, cam, & timing set they still allow the camshaft to be installed where the manufacturer intended it. Only after you do that is it for adjusting cam timing. And with MP - yes degreeing is a MUST. The last 383/335 horse MP cam I degreed was 6 degrees retarded from the cam card when installed with the dots lined up.
 
Do a google image search of cam degree wheel, pick which one you like, print it off, enlarge it, glue it to a piece of cardboard, cut out the center as noted on the pic and all of a sudden you have a degree wheel for the cost of printer paper and ink. Add one coat hanger for a pointer.
 
Put a degree wheel on it to find out where you are and be done with it. Better to know and do now than have to redo later.
 
last time i used one on my 440 i also used a dial indicator. is that needed?
 
...last cam install I did confirmed that the timing set was 11* retarded...so, yes, please for your own sake, degree it or you may be disappointed later.
 
moper said:
"usually you degree a cam if you want to change the Cam timing.
Otherwise it is only a check if the factory specs are correct."

I disagree. Degreeing is to make sure with the stacked tolerances and accuracy of machining on the block, crank, cam, & timing set they still allow the camshaft to be installed where the manufacturer intended it. Only after you do that is it for adjusting cam timing. And with MP - yes degreeing is a MUST. The last 383/335 horse MP cam I degreed was 6 degrees retarded from the cam card when installed with the dots lined up.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I bet that 100 out of 100 stone stock engines back in the day right off the assembly line were not timed right at the cam.
 
moper said:
"usually you degree a cam if you want to change the Cam timing.
Otherwise it is only a check if the factory specs are correct."

I disagree. Degreeing is to make sure with the stacked tolerances and accuracy of machining on the block, crank, cam, & timing set they still allow the camshaft to be installed where the manufacturer intended it.
Click to expand...

This x 100000. There are way too many variables that can move the relation of the cam and crank.

My opinion is don't waste your time doing cam swap or engine build if you want to skip this part. FYI, my 460 was of 5 degrees at "0". I've heard of people seeing much worse.
 
If you have a decent quality timing set then you don't need to degree that cam in. Do you think Mopar degreed in every cam they ever placed in an engine. No.
Degreeing in a cam is no guarantee that it will be at the optimum setting for power. It simply gives you the cam manufactures ideal location and that it just a starting point for if you want to advance or retard the cam for tuning purposes.
If your going to talk about "machining tolerances" then you may as well check the location of every single lobe on that new cam because who's to say it's been machined correctly all the way along?
 
dano said:
This x 100000. There are way too many variables that can move the relation of the cam and crank.
Click to expand...
Actually there are only 3 variables, crank keyway location, cam keyway/ bolt location and bad timing gear set.
 
Always degree to verify the cam is in where you want it.

If you are spending time and money to build or upgrade an engine, just one of the steps to insure things are at least where they are supposed to be. Mp says to install some cams at 106-108, I installed them at 98-102. Depends on what you want out of it.

Get a cam that's 6* retarded and a timing set that is another 8-10 retarded. Yep, that's a recipe for success!

The factories didn't give 2 craps about assembly and correctness. As long as it ran, they were good. 2 identical cars from the factory sometimes ran very different, wonder why? :)
 
I'm with crackedback and RRR on this one do your self a favor and degree your camshaft
the last MP purple I degreed was off 5*
 
Darren said:
hey guys i am getting ready to install my new cam into my 68 383. the cam is a MP purple 68 RR cam. the car is a 68 cuda. it will be street driven only and i am using a new comp cam timming chain and sprokets. I really do not want to buy a degree kit for one use. what do you think thanks
Click to expand...


These posts crack me up! You knew the answer before asking the question. S'Okay don't by a degree kit. Slap that bumpstick in there. A small popsicle stick will work to align the dots.

And I don't wanna chew my food any more. How good's that gonna work I wonder?
 
IQ52 said:
These posts crack me up! You knew the answer before asking the question. S'Okay don't by a degree kit. Slap that bumpstick in there. A small popsicle stick will work to align the dots.

And I don't wanna chew my food any more. How good's that gonna work I wonder?
Click to expand...

I swear Jim, you're a real knee slapper.
 
Those kits are nice but not necessary

I'll bet CanTire has a dial indicator/magnetic base. Buy a degree wheel for ~$20 and you have some new tools to use for possibly more than just degreeing.
 
IQ52 said:
These posts crack me up! You knew the answer before asking the question. S'Okay don't by a degree kit. Slap that bumpstick in there. A small popsicle stick will work to align the dots.

And I don't wanna chew my food any more. How good's that gonna work I wonder?
Click to expand...

Funny Guy

i am on this forum for advice. like most other people. i am trying to do the right thing with this engine but also on a tight budget. ( raising 2 young children) thats why a cant afford a degree kit at this time.
thats why i am asking the question.
 
crackedback said:
Those kits are nice but not necessary

I'll bet CanTire has a dial indicator/magnetic base. Buy a degree wheel for ~$20 and you have some new tools to use for possibly more than just degreeing.
Click to expand...

good idea. i will check out Can tire or Princess auto for a dial indicator. thanks
 
Darren said:
Funny Guy

i am on this forum for advice. like most other people. i am trying to do the right thing with this engine but also on a tight budget. ( raising 2 young children) thats why a cant afford a degree kit at this time.
thats why i am asking the question.
Click to expand...

If you have a printer, cardboard, paper, a pencil, and string you can make the degree wheel. Then you only need the dial indicator. You don;t need a top of the line one - you need one that shows movement smoothly.
 
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