Cam eccentric on 340

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. JG1966

    JG1966 Well-Known Member

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    Should the cam eccentric on a 340 wobble, rattle and be loose when I prod at it with a screwdriver through fuel pump opening? It didn't seem right to me but the guy who refreshed motor over the winter says it's perfectly normal and all cam eccentrics are loose and move side to side. Is that right?
     
  2. JBurch

    JBurch FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    NO, it should NOT be loose, or rattle, that would mean that your timing chain sprocket is loose and rattly. Get it fixed and send him the bill; charge him double for being stupid!
     
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    • MoparLeo

      MoparLeo NRA BENEFACTOR LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FABO Gold Member

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      TOTAL BS !! It should probably be replaced. It can be replaced on the car. If the key way on the eccentric is a loose fit on the Woodruff key it needs to be replaced. Also the woodruff key should be replaced. The factory torque spec for eccentric bolt is 35 ft. lbs. I would also use Blue Lock-Tite. Had one come loose many, many years ago. It left me in the middle of no where. Was inexpensive to fix but very inconvenient and a big tow bill.
       
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      • JG1966

        JG1966 Well-Known Member

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        They put the washer on upside down!! I'm amazed it ran as long as it did.
        20180620_195151.jpg
         
        Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
      • 65Val

        65Val Average Length Member

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        Your "refresh guy" should only be allowed to refresh Chevy's.
         
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        • JG1966

          JG1966 Well-Known Member

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          Yeah, the ridiculous thing is they are one of the best shops around and build race motors for the local drag strip much, much nicer than my little 340. I sent him a photo and asked if he can do something to make me feel a little better about this.
           
        • Max1196

          Max1196 Well-Known Member

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          How much more did he "refresh"? Rods, Mains, Rings. Have a qualified trustworthy person take a look and give you an opinion.
           
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          • mbaird

            mbaird mbaird

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            Anyone can make a mistake. What would scare me is the BS line !
            Trust ?
             
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            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              Not like that. That's what shop manuals are for. After I was hurt on the job several years ago, I had to contract with a local shop to build a 360 for a truck I had. ....among other things, they put the rocker shafts on backwards and several rockers on backwards. They had an entire machine shop library 4 shelving units wide in the corner of the shop. Could have looked up that information easily.

              If you are going to be in the business, it's in for a penny in for a pound if you are taking peoples' hard earned money. Absolutely no excuse for mistakes like that, AT ALL.
               
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              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Overnight Sensation FABO Gold Member

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                I agree. Even without the books and manuals there is NO REASON for that. Why would Chrysler go to all the trouble of making a washer like that and then use it upside down? They could have used a flat washer.

                That's dumb.
                 
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                • gzig5

                  gzig5 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  The paint line on the bolt head indicates that it was torqued to some spec, right? So the bolt must be bottomed out in the hole, thus the need for the special washer?
                   
                • justinp61

                  justinp61 Well-Known Member

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                  JG1966 you'll be lucky if it didn't ruin the cam. Also you need to look for a new engine builder.
                   
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                  • replicaracer43

                    replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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                    I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that your "refresh guy" is a chevy guy. That's just common, everyday stupidity right there.
                     
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                    • JBurch

                      JBurch FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      To read a manual, you must first know how to read, people don't read anymore, they look for pictures here on the internet, one of the many ways sh$t happens...
                       
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                      • Bobzilla

                        Bobzilla Well-Known Member

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                        This builder probably did a couple Pontiac engines before. They have a two piece eccentric, and the outer piece does rotate freely when properly installed and torqued down, if I remember correctly.
                        Still no excuse to avoid the manuals when working on something unfamiliar to him.
                        Hope it works out ok, JG1966.
                         
                      • JG1966

                        JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                        That is a concern of mine. I've talked to him and he's going to make it right.
                         
                      • yellow rose

                        yellow rose Overnight Sensation FABO Gold Member

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                        Good on you for letting him make it right. Doesn't change the fact he made that mistake because if he just looked at the front of the engine he would have seen why that washer was made the way it is. I suspect he was just working at his normal rhythm and just blew it off.

                        None of us is perfect. I'm glad you let him make it right.

                        BTW...how many guys work in that shop.
                         
                      • justinp61

                        justinp61 Well-Known Member

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                        I'd inspect the cam before he touched it again.
                         
                      • JG1966

                        JG1966 Well-Known Member

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                        The guy was really good keeping me informed doing the refresh -- he did rings, mains, new cam -- and I know he felt terrible, like an idiot, for making that mistake. I like and trust the guy. They've been around since 1965. Probably 5-6 guys work there. I have no problem giving him another chance. That's what this country is all about, right?
                         
                      • yellow rose

                        yellow rose Overnight Sensation FABO Gold Member

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                        Is it possible he let a new guy or someone with less experience put it together? Like I said...shit happens.
                         
                      • RustyRatRod

                        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                        Exatcly. And they will possibly get wrong information, because some of the info out there is purposely wrong just to sabotage someone for the hell of it.
                         
                      • iScamp

                        iScamp Well-Known Member

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                        The oodles of Permatex is either a sign of insecurity or someone used to taking up Chevy machine tolerances. In my opinion, he needs to use a gasket. That's way too much and unnecessary use of RTV. I"ve seen excess chunks from situations like that end up clogging the drilled coolant passages (head to block mating). Got pictures of that. Also, seen it break loose and foul the oil pick-up.
                         
                      • iScamp

                        iScamp Well-Known Member

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                        I saw on social media or Youtube a situation where a guy had a late model Ford truck that would vibrate severely above 65 mph. The dealership said there was nothing to be done about it. The Service Writer told the customer, "that model of Ford truck was not designed to go over 65 mph."

                        If I can find it again, I'll post a link.
                         
                      • Unconventional

                        Unconventional Well-Known Member

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                        Or plug the transmission filter and fry a transmission 300 miles after a fluid and filter change.
                         
                      • gzig5

                        gzig5 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        I just pulled the timing cover on my 340 to check the condition of the timing chain due to a timing issue and I found the same result. Whoever was in there last installed that washer upside down. In my case it all seems tight now, doesn't rattle. There is a mark on the inside of the timing cover from the eccentric so maybe they caught the loose bolt and tightened it up. But from the wear I see on the eccentric and the arm of the new fuel pump that has only 45 minutes or so on it, it doesn't look like the eccentric is getting a lot of oil. Need to try and look into that. Anyone know where the oil comes in from for that? There was definitely some oil that dripped out the fuel pump opening when I removed it. Maybe I'm seeing ghosts....
                         
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