Can’t get Harland sharp rockers to fit on head?

Discussion in 'Mopar Performance Issues' started by LovetheA's, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. LovetheA's

    LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    So I already swapped out the drivers side of my 383 engine’s 915 heads and upgraded to my edelbrock performer rpm head. It’s all torqued down to spec and I can’t get the Harland Sharp rockers to fit all the way down on the edelbrock rocker pedestals. I took some photos of the problem. You can clearly see the gap between the rocker shaft and the pedestals. I keep comparing the setup on the edelbrock s as compared to the rockers on the passenger side 915 heads. I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong?
    I should probably mention that the builder who built the engine and originally put the rockers on did carve out a lot of material on the underside of the rocker to get the rockers to clear the valve springs on the cast iron heads. I also took photos of the clearance between the Harland sharps and the springs on the edelbrock’s it does look like they are close to touching but maybe I could shim them somehow? Is it normal to have a little lateral play or movement on the rockers that sit on the shaft? When I look at the rockers on the iron head it has a little lateral movement on the shaft maybe 1/16 of an inch? I also took a photo of the difference in height of the pushrods sitting on the lifters which sit on the cam. Is this big difference in height normal due to the lift on the cam? I’m just trying to find out how to correct the fitment problem.

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  2. dano

    dano Evil Handy Man FABO Gold Member

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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
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    • duster360

      duster360 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      I agree with Dano, back off all the adjusters and they should drop down.
       
    • tonysrt

      tonysrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Looks like most of the adjusters are all the way up with maybe two threads left and most of them are not close to seating on the push rod. In the #2 photo it looks like the rockers are being held up by the springs preventing the shaft to seat on the head.
       
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      • scampy

        scampy Well-Known Member

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        Agree with check geometry then if this is new set up maybe pushrods are too long but those adjusters do look a bit far out even with a couple threads showing but that maybe where they are for clearance of the rocker but that falls into the geometry again
         
      • mullinax95

        mullinax95 Well-Known Member

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        Yep... back off the adjusters ...tighten down the shafts.... then set the preload. If you can't get the shafts all the way down with the adjusters backed out you need custom cut pushrods... two threads showing on the pushrod side is the recommended setting.

        http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/productInstructions/LengthCheckerMay20162.pdf

        http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/productInstructions/LifterPreloadFeb2016.pdf

        http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/productInstructions/RockerArmBundleMay2017.pdf
         
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        • sam65

          sam65 Well-Known Member

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          some of the valves are going to be open or trying to open,it is not going to seat on the heads.if you back off the rocker shaft bolts on the other side it's going to look the same way.I would back the adjuster off 2 turns,tighten the shaft a little at a time working it down evenly making sure the pushrods line up to rockers as you go.Once the shafts is torqued down reset lash on rockers.
           
        • Dubob

          Dubob Well-Known Member

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          Agree with this. But may not hurt to pull pushrods and set rocker shaft assembly on pedestals to make sure there isn’t anything to prevent them setting down on the heads. After verifying that, put push rods back in place. Check geometry and proceed.
           
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          • famous bob

            famous bob mopar misfit

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            I was getting ready to suggest this----------- I`d be surprised if u didn`t need longer push rods too. Setting the wedge valve train up new, can be time consuming if you`ve never done it before !
             
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            • jbc426

              jbc426 Well-Known Member

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              Something's not right, as you have eluded to. While the shaft mounted big block Mopar seems simple, it is actually very easy to bolt it all on and have some big problems that can get even bigger if left as is. I found that out the hard way.

              Mike at B3 Racing is at the leading edge of resolving the Mopar shaft mounted rocker geometry and fitment issue. You would be wise to contact him, as he is an absolute expert on this topic. I highly recommend him, and he has top-notch customer service as well.

              Can you show us pictures of the clearancing on the rockers?

              I've attached a couple of pictures of what Mike's kit looks like on my heads. The motor runs so much smoother to max rpm now that its like a different motor. B3's kit along with some of Manton's Stage 5 - 7/16" pushrods and a Dwayne Porter valve job have transformed my RB. It's never run this good, and is nothing short of amazing how much smoother it is.

              The odd thing is most people just bolt on a set of shaft mounted rockers and call it good. There's a lot to be gained by taking the time to optimize your valvetrain geometry.

              Rockers2 (Medium).JPG

              Rockers3 (Medium).JPG
               
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              • mbaird

                mbaird mbaird FABO Gold Member

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                Curious... What heads and rockers are those using the B3 shims? I have W2 race and Harland rockers that will need adressing.
                 
              • LovetheA's

                LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Update on the assembly and fitment of my Harland Sharp shaft type BB mopar rocker arms. I took the pushrods out and low and behold the rocker shaft sits down on the pedestals flush now. I have begun to loosen up the rocker adjusting nut and backed off the screw in adjusters at the contact point between the end of the pushrods and rocker. I’ve been reading and trying to soak up as much info as possible to work through this. I have started with the front two valves and rockers on the drivers side to drop in the pushrods and adjust the contact point between the the rocker and pushrod to get it at zero lash. Is it possible that with the change from the cast iron 915’s to the Eddy’s that I will have to buy different length pushrods? I plan on contacting Mike at B3 racing engines.
                I have read that the best method to set zero lash on all rockers is to spin the pushrod and when it grabs that is zero lash. Turn the engine in increments of 1/4 turn at a time at crank pulley and recheck pushrods as some will loosen a little then retighten until all are at zero lash. This makes sense. After all are set at zero lash than go another 1/2 turn to set preload with Harland Sharps.
                What I need to know is that in terms of later having a correct drop in of distributor are my assumptions correct? I think after moving crank pulley two full complete revolutions it will set the engine back at the starting point on the compression stroke? Is that correct? If so I can mark the crank pulley and make sure if comes back around at where I started. Then can just drop in distributor and set timing to be exact. Is that correct guys? Thank you for all the feedback couldn’t do it without all the help.
                Carl
                 
              • duster360

                duster360 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                I use this chart and it works well for me. Rotate the engine until the intake valve opens and then starts closing on cylinder #1. Once it closes you will be on the compression stroke. Start watching the piston and when it reaches the top you should be at 0* TDC on the balancer on cylinder #1. Adjust the intake valve on #2 cylinder and exhaust on #8 like the chart says. Then just follow the chart from there.
                When all adjustments are made, get cylinder #1 back to the compression stroke like said above, then you can drop in the distributor. Look and see where the rotor button is pointing under the cap. It should be pointing at the #1 plug wire post on the distributor cap. If in doubt once that is done, just post here where you are at and we can go from there.

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                Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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                • jimjimjimmy

                  jimjimjimmy lobsterman FABO Gold Member

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                  I know if my builder ground the shit out of my rockers for clearance I would be pissed . you can't fix a geometry problem with a grinder .
                   
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                  • duster360

                    duster360 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Another thing you need to look at is the adjusters. When you adjust the valves, the adjuster should have 1 or 2 threads showing on the underside of the rocker. Much more or less than that and you will need new pushrods.
                     
                  • dano

                    dano Evil Handy Man FABO Gold Member

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                    I've always removed a lifter, gutted it (save the guts, keep them clean and remember how they came out so you can put them in) used a stack up washers in side the lifter to shim the cup up to the retaining clip and use that for push rod length checks and geometry checks. On a shaft system, the push rod does not adjust geometry at all, you have to move the pivot, which is the shaft, to adjust roller position on the valve tip. For preload, know what the lifter MFG recommends and know what the threads are on your adjuster and calculate how much distance (preload) a full turn will make. For example, 3/8-24 UNF has 24 threads per inch, so one full turn will preload 0.041" (1/24=0.041). Your method for setting lash is correct when you have the geometry correct (or close, it ca be a give and take sometimes) and you have the correct length pushrods.

                    You need to go 4 full turns of the crank to be back on the intake stroke if that is where you started.
                     
                  • LovetheA's

                    LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Dano
                    That makes sense because it is a 4 stroke engine. Compression, power, exhaust, intake. Got it. So I have to go around 4 times for pistons to move back to same point at compression stroke.
                    Carl
                    P.S. Thanks everyone for the feedback.
                     
                  • jimjimjimmy

                    jimjimjimmy lobsterman FABO Gold Member

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                    4 strokes is 2 revolutions .
                     
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                    • yellow rose

                      yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                      TRUE DAT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                       
                    • yellow rose

                      yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                      The amount of adjuster protrusion is 9/32 (~.287) and that includes the ball. Depending on the ball that is usually 0-1 thread showing.
                       
                    • LovetheA's

                      LovetheA's FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      So just to be clear two full revolutions of the crank pulley will equal 4 strokes of the piston and get you back to the starting point on compressions? If that’s correct. That is what I said initially but was corrected.
                       
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                      • jas0162

                        jas0162 Well-Known Member

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                        Do the push rods have plenty of clearance where they pass through the head?
                         
                      • jbc426

                        jbc426 Well-Known Member

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                        They are Indy EZ's and T&D rockers.
                         
                      • hangn0ut

                        hangn0ut Well-Known Member

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                        Don't worry about losing tdc. The classic way is the finger on #1 spark plug hole. You can always place a pushrods on #1 intake lifter and watch it rise then fall. Tdc is coming up next! This is a basic step you need to learn if you want to play with your engine.
                         
                      • famous bob

                        famous bob mopar misfit

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                        looked like it to me too.