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Early A-Body Discussions

  1. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    Ok guys. I pushed my 65 Barracuda out of the garage to finish taking the body apart. But when I tried to start it, it turns over but will not start. I connected a timing light to make sure I am getting spark. It shows I am. I have just replaced the gas tank, so added fuel and have it pumped up to the filter. Carb was not showing any fuel, so I poured some gas into the carb, No start. Tried starting fluid, and no start. This is a 273 Commando that has ran great in the past. The only thing I had worked on was I had taken the dash out to restore it. I put it back in and hooked up the amp gauge and key switch. What am I missing? Motor is stock, and I haven't done anything under the hood.
    Ideas are welcome.
     
  2. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    "How good" is the spark?

    I ALWAYS "start" by checking spark right at the coil with a grounded probe (screwdriver and alligator lead) but you also need to understand that if you jumper the starter relay, this gives a weak spark because the ballast is still in the circuit ----it's bypassed if you twist the key to start

    So you need two people, or a spark gap (Mine is a Lisle) or temp wire an alligator direct to the coil+ then you can jumper the relay and do it "one man."

    Hold the probe up to the coil tower and look for a nice blue spark

    compression.........spark.......and fuel

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    Thanks. I used a timing light and shows a consistent flash. Had it running in the last month
     
  4. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    I was using the key to attempt starting
     
  5. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    A timing light won't tell you if you have a weak spark.
     
  6. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    Okay. Thanks.
     
  7. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    jump 12V to coil side and use a screwdriver across the starter solenoid to hand start it. itll run fine with 12V to coil, enough to tell you its not the ignition switch.
     
  8. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    I found that the carb has fuel in both sides, but the accelerator pump may not be working. Carb was rebuilt 2 years ago. Still doesn't tell me why it wouldn't start with adding to gas to the carb or using starter fluid. I wonder if maybe I had it flooded by adding gas to the carb. I checked the plugs and they look good. More later. I need to make a place in the garage to get it back in tonight. 70 today and then rain and cold for the next few days. Goes from 70 to 45. That is Carolina weather. Would anyone know which carb kit I need.
     
  9. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Compression, spark, fuel. That is it

    Compression. Has to be "enough." If the engine is severely worn, valves burned or CAM DRIVE SLIPPED it may not have enough compression and of course cam out of time never good

    SPARK. Needs to have a good hot spark. This is why I start by checking spark right at the coil with a grounded probe or gap. This shows you what you have. Nice blue spark at least 3/8" long. Of course the spark has to be IN TIME. Since you mentioned timing light, you can check timing "on the starter"

    Obviously check plugs, coil wire, condition of cap and rotor.

    FUEL. FRESH fuel. And make sure it's actually gasoline. About 1/2 to one teaspoon in each carb throat SHOULD result in a nice healthy "second or two" blast of "running" from the engine, even if the carb is plugged, etc or not getting fuel.
     
  10. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    Plugs are new, just replaced fuel tank. Other than removal of the dashboard and restoring and replacing that, nothing else should have changed. It started and ran really well just a few weeks ago. Thanks for the information
     
  11. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    If you didn't have the dizzy out I would do a quick compression test.Or with a helper cranking it, check for suction at the primaries, with the secondaries plugged and the spark disabled.
    I've seen a couple of engines jump the chain during cranking.
    If the rings don't seal well due to fuel wash,compression will be low, and more importantly, so will carb-suction.It takes suction to pull a burnable charge.
    A few CCs of oil can restore ring seal, due to fuel wash.
    (Yeah I know it's not really pulling the charge, but everybody understands the concept.)
     
  12. 64cudaV8

    64cudaV8 Well-Known Member

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    Check all of your fuses. Seems electrical.
     
  13. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    Sorry man,theres no fuses in the factory ignition system, except for the fusible link. so if it cranks by the key, the link is good.
     
  14. Lustle

    Lustle Well-Known Member

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    Do you get a rich smell or anything? I'm wondering if a float isn't stuck flooding it. Maybe a problem with the air idle circuit from sitting. Gas these days go so bad so fast. Or if it's not dumping fuel in ontop of your starter fluid. Which could make for a fun bang, but not for a fun start.
     
  15. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    I'm more involved in taking the body apart and getting ready for paint at present
    but when I get a break, I try to find out what is wrong that it will not start. I know that it is more than likely something simple, just bugs me. It would be a little easier to get in and out of the garage without pushing. The more I take apart, the easier it is to push though.
     
  16. 64cudaV8

    64cudaV8 Well-Known Member

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    A fusible link is a fuse is it not? Just a wire instead of a typical glass fuse. Loose connections, wire popped off etc.. It still sounds electrical anyway.
     
  17. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    OK, I'll start; I'm sorry.I made a mistake.
    By not including the F-link in "all of the fuses". I just assumed that, PER POST #1;since it cranks and is sending spark signals to the timing light, that therefore; the crank circuit, and the ignition circuit and the key-switch, were all working. That seems to indicate the F-link is fully functioning.Silly me...........I have never heard anyone refer to the F-link, as a fuse, even tho that is what it is. So if you were really including the F-link in "all of the fuses", Then I stand corrected, and am sorry I tried to educate you in as friendly a way as possible.
     
  18. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    The simple answer is, if the main fuse link is open, NOTHING in the car will work, not ignition, nor starter, nor dome lights, nor headlights. NOTHING

    As to whether they are "really a fuse" I claim "no." They cannot be depended on to blow with no damage. Fuses "generally' are sized to protect the wire, switches, terminals, so that if something happens, very little melt damage occurs.

    I personally was involved with a loaner car in the 70's from a dealer, in which the alternator shorted internally. The entire underhood harness sat right there and fizzled and dizzled and melted and cried and bawled, and let every bit of the smoke out........AND THEN BLEW the fuse link
     
  19. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    My experiences have not been as dramatic. Most have given me plenty of stinky warning, to shut off everything I can. But I have been stranded a couple of times.
    One time,was in winter, at -15*C( Calculator says -5*F). Not that cold unless you are bent over a fender, in the wind,and strippin wires and twisting them together,bare knuckled. Thankfully I found a knife in the car, and rigged a bypass to get me home; I stole the choke wire, all 18inches or so of it,and folded it into about three lengths. By good fortune there was still good wires left on either side of the link.I turned around and went 4 miles straight home.
     
  20. gtxdude

    gtxdude Well-Known Member

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    Ballast resistor?
     
  21. BillGrissom

    BillGrissom Well-Known Member

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    Try choking off the fuel supply and spraying starter fluid down the throat, which has ether which has a much wider flammability limits. Gas is more touchy and needs the carb to supply a fairly accurate O/F ratio to ignite. I assume it sparks as you crank.
     
  22. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    Thanks Bill. I have spark, but the accelerator pump must not be working. If I look into the carburetor there is no fuel spray
    I took the top off and there is fuel in both bowls. Carb was rebuilt 2 years ago and the car hasn't been driven other than starting and letting it run. It started and ran a few weeks ago. I replaced the fuel tank and have fuel to the filter and into the carburetor. At present I am stripping the body and preparing to paint, so I'll get back to this part soon. Thanks for any thoughts
     
  23. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    Is it a Holley or a Carterbrock? Holley can get gummed up in the little check ball under the pump shooter. It looks like a little cone and if its glued in there no pump shot will dislodge it. youll need to take the carb off, invert it and tap it against a table to get it dislodged. If its a carter, there is a check valve that looks like a jet at the base of the pump, unscrew it and clean it. Also the leather pump seal gets dried out doesnt seal up anymore but it usually softens up with fresh fuel. Cant help you on any 2bbl unless its a Holley that looks like 1/2 an 1850, same check valve. you can also run a wire into your shooter to dislodge any crud.
     
  24. MoparLeo

    MoparLeo NRA PATRON LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FABO Gold Member

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    If it is a Thermo-quad type, the accelerator pump has an internal short hose from the accelerator pump to the discharge nozzle. They harden and crack with time. FYI. It is never good/safe to pour fuel into the carburetor. Doesn't matter if it is a Holley or Carter/Edelbrock type. They have vertical bowl vent tubes. Fill the fuel bowls by feeding the fuel through the tubes. Now you can check the accelerator pump. No spilled fluid. I had a friend with over 40 years of under hood experience get seriously burned by pouring fuel down the carb throat while someone was cranking the engine. It backfired , my friend spilled the rest of the fuel on his long sleeve shirt sleeves which ignited and caused severe burns on his arms. Rookie mistake. Never use a combustable to check for vacuum/intake leaks. You can do the same with a spray bottle of water. If you find a leak, instead of the rpms going up with your flammable fluid, the rpms will go down when water is sucked into the leak. Same result to find the leak. One way is safe and one is not. Also have a current, proper type of fire extinguisher handy. You should have at least one good sized extinguisher in your shop at all times. Also handy to have one in the kitchen. We never think about the simple things until we find out the hard way. as indicated earlier, you must find out how hot/high the current is at the coil and plugs. Also recheck the initial timing. Like was said earlier it is normally something simple. Don't assume anything is correct until you physically check it your self. Never assume anything. Good luck with your diagnosing.
     
  25. Tadams

    Tadams Tadams

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    Thanks for the advice. I found the accelerator pump isn't pumping gas for some reason. I think it is something simple, so I have removed the radiator, fan, and any brackets I could as I am preparing to paint the car this coming week. The carburetor is a Carter 4 barrel. Was rebuilt less than 2 years ago. Both of the bowls have fuel in them, I pulled the top off of the carburetor. I called the company in Texas who rebuilt it for me. I didn't see any gas under the accelerator pump so it could be stopped up as you mentioned. Thanks again and I'll get back to work on that part after I do the paint. Should have several 70* days this coming week and I thought I would take advantage of them while I'm not working.
     
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