Car won't shut off...Help!

Discussion in 'Electrical and Ignition' started by 69wacuda, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. 69wacuda

    69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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    So, I've been trying to drive the barracuda more lately, and all of a sudden, after two days of driving it, it doesn't start. I jump it, let it run for 20 minutes and then let it sit for most of the day. I go to pull it in the garage at the end of the day and it's dead again! I jump it again and pull into the garage. When I turn the key and pull the key out it's as if i hadn't done anything. It just keeps running. I replaced the ignition switch; no dice. That was $60 down the drain. Could it be the coil? Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Grant
     
  2. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Most undignified way to get to Colorado!

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    What if anything has been done to the car lately????


    Sounds like a wiring issue. Something is providing 12V to the ballast resister OR directly to the coil. That you have a dead battery after a few hours after it is shut off would correlate with that. Disconnect the + wire form the coil and with the key off check it for voltage should be 0V.
     
  3. Mattax

    Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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    No. It is getting power and as long as it does, the engine will run.

    "Disconnect the + wire from the coil"
    If you do this, DO NOT let the bare wire end touch any ground.
    Why? Because it could ground the battery positive.
    a. Obviously the wire is drawing power or the engine would not continue to run.
    b. If it is in any way connected to the battery, touching ground will cause the battery to discharge as much current as it can .
    With some luck the fusible link will fail before everything else melts.

    Probably a safer way to shut off is removing the connector from the ballast resistor. The terminal on each side is in a connector and so less likely to ground. Still be careful.
    Disconnecting either should shut the engine unless power is coming through the brown wire (normally ignition run when starting).

    I beleive the '69 wiring is very similar to '68. So the ignition and charging circuits look as shown below.
    Notice the wires that are always hot. The ones connected to the battery but don't go through the ignition switch. One of them may be touching the run circuit.

    Charging-diagram68BV.png
     
  4. 69wacuda

    69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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    i killed the car by pulling the (+) battery cable the the Dark blue connector on the alternator regulator.
     
  5. 69wacuda

    69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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    Well, I put in new gauges and a relay switch block for accessories. I believe i ruled these out by disconnecting there power source and trying again getting a negative result. I did test the Dark Blue (+) to the coil and it is hot with the key out. Also the car has an HEI ignition system.... i traced the blue wire back to the alternator regulator box. the Drk blue wire is also connected to the brown going to the ignition switch. Where does the Dark Blue ultimatley get its power because it is hot with the car off.
     
  6. 69wacuda

    69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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    20180604_145640_HDR.jpg 20180604_145718.jpg

    20180604_145730_HDR.jpg
     
  7. 69wacuda

    69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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    Could my hei ignition be causing this?
     
  8. Mattax

    Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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    You can take the above diagram and add your modifications at the appropriate locations. It's in GIF format, so easy to work with MS paint or other free programs.

    Power will come from the highest voltage source with adaquate capacity.
    When the alternator is running, its usually the power source as voltage is regulated to approximately 14.0 Volts
    When the alternator is not running, or can not produce enough power, and voltage drops below 13.0 Volts or so, the battery becomes the power source.
    On a stock setup. the ammeter will show if the battery is supplying ppower. Depending on where additional equipment was added, that may no longer be true.
     
  9. Mattax

    Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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    Originally, everything got its power from the main junction. On the right side of the diagram it is represented by the big black dot. It's a welded splice joining those 5 or 6 wires.
    Whether power to that main distribution point comes from the alternator or battery, it goes there, and then to where ever the demand is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  10. Dana67Dart

    Dana67Dart Most undignified way to get to Colorado!

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    Maybe. BUT the car worked as expected till it didn't. If everything was changed before it stopped working correctly then something changed either by you or a shorted connection or something else.
     
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    • 69wacuda

      69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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      All right guys. Apparently, I fixed it...? The only thing I did was cut the dark blue splice at the ignition switch (one going to the cluster, one coming from the bulkhead connector. Also, I pulled; but did not disconnect the wires, the gauge cluster (aftermarket Intellitronix digital gauges). I also tested, with a multi-meter, all the points listed on the diagram that Mattax posted (Thanks for that). Oh, I also jiggled the wiring harness in the dash, (this is probably what fixed it). I "f'ing" hate wiring gremlins! I'm seriously considering a new wiring harness kit when I swap in the big block....:BangHead:. I totally feel this is a "fixed for now" not a "it's Fixed" situation, but I honestly don't know what it was that worked. Thanks for all who responded to my plea.

      Grant
       
    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      I beleive the power should be flowing into the switch on just one wire - the red 12 gage wire in the diagram.
      So if there is power in the blue to the instrument cluster, something is feeding it from a constant hot.
      That terminal on the switch should be hot only when the switch is in Run postion.
      Is it possi ble the new instruments or something was tied in at the ammeter studs/ or former connection if it was removed?
      Mdoify the diagram or make a new one - for your own sanity, not just now but for 5 years later when it all gets fuzzy...
       
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      • Mattax

        Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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        IF so, that's could be slow battery drain.
         
      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

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        I absolutely need to continue reading the rest of this thread because if I only read this, my first question would be has the car ran out of gas yet? Cuz nowhere does it say you got it actually to turn off!
        If someone says grab the Coil wire! Don't do it! I told that to a friend in high school auto shop and he damn near peed his pants! Our teacher mr. kingham damn near peed his pants laughing.
         
      • 69wacuda

        69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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        I removed the (+) wire from the battery and pulled the alternator wire from the regulator box on the firewall.
         
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        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 Well-Known Member

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          I hate to say this but you easily could have "hidden meltage" in your ignition harness. The fact that you "fixed" it might mean that you "wiggled things" just enough to "unmake" the unwanted connection.

          (The ignition circuit is NOT FUSED other than the main fuse link, so this means EG that something like a grounded brush at the alternator could have "smoked" the ignition harness and heated it up. That is, the "run" feed)

          DO YOU HAVE any wiring modifications/ former hacks/ ragged wiring that should "ring a bell"

          Some things to consider:

          Mentioned conductors melted in the harness
          Some hack someone added a tach and got sloppy with wiring
          Bad ignition switch. New does not mean "good"
          Testing with light and meter IS YOUR FRIEND

          If you can make the problem reappear, rig a good bright lamp that you can SEE such as an old tail/ turn bulb and socket. These are VERY handy sometimes, as you can wire them different ways

          "Rig" the test lamp to the IGN1 (run) feed and start wiggling things..........the bulkhead connector, the harness in different spots, the switch connector, and the key/ switch itself.

          SINCE THESE VEHICLES do not have an "idiot lamp" charge lamp like GM, there is very little possibility of factory wiring having a "feedback" condition which will trick you
           
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          • Mattax

            Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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            Yes, its heavily modified. New instrumentation, some sort of relay block, and some sort of HEI.

            Once he makes a diagram showing where power is being tapped from, it will be easier to figure out. Too many possibilities now.
            Could be two wires touching as you suggest. It could be something like power to the new instruments being supplied from a non-switched source. That's what I was getting at in post #12.
             
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            • 69wacuda

              69wacuda Handling, and a 500ci engine.... All in good time! FABO Gold Member

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              Just kidding. Went to get in the car this morning and dead as a door nail. 1.7v..... I will be diving in deep to the dash this Friday. If I find anything I will post it. Thanks for all your suggestions.