Carb recommendation 440

[Scottcab]

Hello all,
I just purchased a 73’ Dart that was setup for the 1/4 mile. I’m looking to make it primarily a fast street car, but I don’t plan on racing it. Unfortunately, I have a limited amount of info on the build.
Here’s what I know:
Weiland Team G intake manifold (single plane)
Roller cams, 10:1 compression, 3500 Stall, ported, 8 3/4 rear with 4:11, currently has a dominator 1050 on it. Previous owner said 550hp range. I took it for a slow-medium cruise for about 2 miles and used about 2 gallons of gas. The slow and medium speeds are crazy sluggish.

I was thinking about a Holley avenger 770 with vacuum secondaries or a 750 classic holley with vacuum.

I am also entertaining the idea of the Holley sniper efi. Thoughts?

If I left out important info, please let me know. I am new to the hobby and have a lot yet to learn.

 

[RustyRatRod]

First off, lets start by making sure you don't sound like a newby at the cruise in.......and no offense meant by this, just trying to help. A 440 Chrysler has one (singular) cam, not "cams". If you say your 440 has roller "cams" you'll lose pretty much any credibility and the snickers will start. SO, that was lesson number 1.

Yes, you left out all kinda stuff, BUT I'll tell you what I know from the pictures. That intake has a Holley Dominator flange. That means without an adapter plate, you will not fit another style carburetor. Those header tubes are BIG. The intake, carburetor and HUGE tube headers are NOT very street (low RPM) friendly. That means low RPM cruise will suffer in exchange for higher RPM power. But, depending on what converter and gear ratio you have, you can make a big improvement on all that. If you can come back with more info we can help further.

 

[Scottcab]

First off, lets start by making sure you don't sound like a newby at the cruise in.......and no offense meant by this, just trying to help. A 440 Chrysler has one (singular) cam, not "cams". If you say your 440 has roller "cams" you'll lose pretty much any credibility and the snickers will start. SO, that was lesson number 1.

Yes, you left out all kinda stuff, BUT I'll tell you what I know from the pictures. That intake has a Holley Dominator flange. That means without an adapter plate, you will not fit another style carburetor. Those header tubes are BIG. The intake, carburetor and HUGE tube headers are NOT very street (low RPM) friendly. That means low RPM cruise will suffer in exchange for higher RPM power. But, depending on what converter and gear ratio you have, you can make a big improvement on all that. If you can come back with more info we can help further.

Thanks for the input. What more info do you need? 3500stall, 4.11 gear.

Will changing the carb with an adapter plate on my existing intake be a good start or will I need to swap both to appreciate the change? I plan on working slowly and learning as I go. That being said I have a little bit of funds left and I would like to get it so that I can at least drive it to dinner as quickly and affordably as possible.

 

[yellow rose]

You don't need a new carb. You need a better tune up. I'd use Thumpr Carbs. If you PM me I'll give you his phone number. Call him with the carb number and he will get you straightened out.

That carb is fine (as long as it is NOT a 3 circuit).

 

[famous bob]

You don't need a new carb. You need a better tune up. I'd use Thumpr Carbs. If you PM me I'll give you his phone number. Call him with the carb number and he will get you straightened out.

That carb is fine (as long as it is NOT a 3 circuit).

sounds like performer RPM and 850 quickfuel territory to me . 1050 dominator is not needed on a warmed over 440. the team G is a terrible intake for runner scatter too, I have been playing w/ one all winter there is hope for them, but a he-- of a lot of work.

 

[Fisher]

For 550 Hp i agree the RPM performer dual plane And a 750double pumper tuned correctly will work fine for you. Be very responsive, and will give you good drivability.

 

[Scottcab]

For 550 Hp i agree the RPM performer dual plane And a 750double pumper tuned correctly will work fine for you. Be very responsive, and will give you good drivability.

Thank you all for the input. I want to get away from the dominator because they are known for their full throttle performance and sluggish slower speed and cruising.

I see a few suggestions for the double pumpers. That’s a mechanical secondary correct? Wouldn’t I have better cruising speed drivability and fuel economy with vaccuum secondaries? I’m not looking to have a distance driver in the economy department, but I would at the least like to find a way to get to 10mpg. Is this an achievable goal?

 

[yellow rose]

Thank you all for the input. I want to get away from the dominator because they are known for their full throttle performance and sluggish slower speed and cruising.

I see a few suggestions for the double pumpers. That’s a mechanical secondary correct? Wouldn’t I have better cruising speed drivability and fuel economy with vaccuum secondaries? I’m not looking to have a distance driver in the economy department, but I would at the least like to find a way to get to 10mpg. Is this an achievable goal?

I can tell you that you'd be wrong. That dominator will work and work well. But you have already made up your mind and you want justification.

People have been sizing carbs wrong for decades. You won't be the first to do it.

 

[rumblefish360]

Thank you all for the input. I want to get away from the dominator because they are known for their full throttle performance and sluggish slower speed and cruising.

I see a few suggestions for the double pumpers. That’s a mechanical secondary correct? Wouldn’t I have better cruising speed drivability and fuel economy with vaccuum secondaries? I’m not looking to have a distance driver in the economy department, but I would at the least like to find a way to get to 10mpg. Is this an achievable goal?

The first problem is, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Choose your method wisely!

My advice is to follow up with that telephone number to Thumper carbs.

Second, while a vacuum secondary carb is well known for better mileage on the street, it isn't the only thing going to contribute to mileage. Your right foot is the biggest controler of mileage along with the state of carb tune & ignition timing. Followed by the converters stall and rear gear & tire size. Just be aware that a big block (440) doesn't get good mileage when stock. Or at least by compare of todays cars! LMAO!!!!

IMO, Famous Bob and Fisher nailed it. Without knowing the size of the cam, which would help to know its specs and such.....
A Edelbrock RPM and a carb done by "Thumper" would be the best balance of both worlds of street and strip. Get his number from YellowRose and call him up. He will set you up very well.

 

[AndyF]

A Performer RPM intake and an Edelbrock 800 carb would tame that combo way down and you would probably still have roughly the same amount of power that you do now. The Sniper setup would also work great but you'll need to make some changes to the fuel system to switch to EFI. Best to do a bunch of research before you go down that road.

The best approach for you is to hit the swap meets and/or look at the for sale ads on here or on Moparts. You should be able to find a used Performer RPM and a used carb without any problems. I just sold a brand new Edelbrock 800 carb for $300 the other day and I have a spare RPM intake sitting in the shop so those parts are easy to find. I also just sold a nice clean Holley 750 DP for $250 at the last swap meet. So for roughly $400 you should be able to find a nice used carb and intake. You can sell your existing Dominator and Team G for $300 or $400 so you'll be at roughly breakeven and your car will run a lot better.

 

[roccodart440]

Is your intake a 4500 flange or a 4150?

I would NEVER run a vac secondary again.

In your case I'd make sure I ran the correct flange carb or a FI system.

I'd check your timing curve. That setup should not be sluggish. The fuel may be in part due to the 4:11's and no OD. I don't know how you tolerate that.


My personal setup is 440, 4.56 gear with GVOD, 3500 vert, 950 mech proform 4150, 17/35 timing.

 

[Scottcab]

Is your intake a 4500 flange or a 4150?

I would NEVER run a vac secondary again.

In your case I'd make sure I ran the correct flange carb or a FI system.

I'd check your timing curve. That setup should not be sluggish. The fuel may be in part due to the 4:11's and no OD. I don't know how you tolerate that.


My personal setup is 440, 4.56 gear with GVOD, 3500 vert, 950 mech proform 4150, 17/35 timing.

Thanks for the input. I don’t tolerate the 4.11 yet because it uses so much gas that I can’t drive it out of my neighborhood.

The current intake is a Team G with a dominator (4500) on it. I am thinking about the Sniper EFI. I see Holley recommends the Team G for the efi. Would it work well to put an adapter on my intake and then the sniper? Or will I have to buy a new intake as well?

I am going to check the timing. Not sure how it’s setup currently.

 

[roccodart440]

So the Team G intake you have has a 4500 dominator on it using NO adaptor? If so I'd leave the carb. If not I'd put a 4150 on it.

I'd find a FI system that uses the flange that is on your intake.

At least check the base timing. Is it mechanical or vac advance distributor ?

 

[rumblefish360]

I am thinking about the Sniper EFI. I see Holley recommends the Team G for the efi. Would it work well to put an adapter on my intake and then the sniper? Or will I have to buy a new intake as well?

Of course Holley will say to use the Team G because they own Weiand.

I'd purchase a new intake.

 

[Fisher]

The intake and carb you have not are not meant for your street car. That is designed to work on a race track 3500 rpm and up off a trans brake or foot swap with a 4500 stall converter and 4.56 gears. And yes some guys on here can make that **** work on the street as long as your only going to the local A&W and home.

For what you want and need, sounds like you have a pretty mild 440 drop on an rpm performer intake with a 750 double pumper with a power valve on the primary side and you will be able to drive the car and still stand on it.

 

[AndyF]

Thanks for the input. I don’t tolerate the 4.11 yet because it uses so much gas that I can’t drive it out of my neighborhood.

The current intake is a Team G with a dominator (4500) on it. I am thinking about the Sniper EFI. I see Holley recommends the Team G for the efi. Would it work well to put an adapter on my intake and then the sniper? Or will I have to buy a new intake as well?

I am going to check the timing. Not sure how it’s setup currently.

You need a different intake for EFI. Just pull your intake and carb off and put it up for sale. That carb might be worth some decent money depending on what the part number is on it. New Dominator carbs are over $1000 so you should be able to get a fair amount even for a used one. I'd use the Performer RPM for a carb but if you are going EFI then buy the Trick Flow intake.

 

[Fisher]

Nothing wrong with a 4.10 gear if you can fit a tall enough tire under the car. I have 3.73 gear with a 275/60/15. I run 2600 rpm on the highway at 65 mph. With 4.10 that would be around 3200 rpm. A 440 does not equal gas mileage in any shape or form. lol Maybe just sell the motor complete and try to find a 360, or if you want a big block build a stock 383 still fun but better for what you seem to want to do?

 

[Scottcab]

So the Team G intake you have has a 4500 dominator on it using NO adaptor? If so I'd leave the carb. If not I'd put a 4150 on it.

I'd find a FI system that uses the flange that is on your intake.

At least check the base timing. Is it mechanical or vac advance distributor ?

Nothing wrong with a 4.10 gear if you can fit a tall enough tire under the car. I have 3.73 gear with a 275/60/15. I run 2600 rpm on the highway at 65 mph. With 4.10 that would be around 3200 rpm. A 440 does not equal gas mileage in any shape or form. lol Maybe just sell the motor complete and try to find a 360, or if you want a big block build a stock 383 still fun but better for what you seem to want to do?

I currently have the same size rear tires. 3200 rpm at 65mph would be okay for 15mins at a time right? I am okay with the 440 not getting “good gas mileage” I was just hoping that I could be in the 8-10mpg or better range. Is that feasible? I think I might be leaning towards the Holley Sniper EFI.

 

[AndyF]

Sure you can get decent gas mileage with a big block. You just need to get it tuned correctly. The Sniper system will be a big improvement, especially if you also control the ignition timing with the EFI system. Once you get the EFI set up correctly it will run great and you'll have good mileage.

 

[roccodart440]

Sure you can get decent gas mileage with a big block. You just need to get it tuned correctly. The Sniper system will be a big improvement, especially if you also control the ignition timing with the EFI system. Once you get the EFI set up correctly it will run great and you'll have good mileage.

LSX (427ci) guys are seeing 20-24mpg often. Tuning, gears and aero

 

[Scottcab]

I acquired a Edelbrock 14073 High Peformance 750cfm mechanical secondaries carb. This should be a good interim solution while I save for the Holley sniper setup right? Also, with this carb on my 440, do y’all think a 14”x2 air cleaner would be sufficient (height clearance issues)

 

[rumblefish360]

LSX (427ci) guys are seeing 20-24mpg often. Tuning, gears and aero

Computer controled, roller cam, F.I., OD trans etc.... ????

I acquired a Edelbrock 14073 High Peformance 750cfm mechanical secondaries carb. This should be a good interim solution while I save for the Holley sniper setup right? Also, with this carb on my 440, do y’all think a 14”x2 air cleaner would be sufficient (height clearance issues)

14 X 3 at least if you have clearance. With that hood scoop, I think you'll have the room.

 

[roccodart440]

I acquired a Edelbrock 14073 High Peformance 750cfm mechanical secondaries carb. This should be a good interim solution while I save for the Holley sniper setup right? Also, with this carb on my 440, do y’all think a 14”x2 air cleaner would be sufficient (height clearance issues)

It will suffice. I never liked my eddy carb for multiple reasons, but it worked well enough to get from A to B.

 

[Sublime one]

Having just converted a 440 to EFI I can assure you if you are strapped for cash that is not going to be a wallet friendly solution. There are a lot of 2nd and 3rd tier costs associated with the swap.
Everybody and their dog has explained the RPM manifold solution to you so I will just simply say amen. PM me if you want more details on my EFI swap. And by all means do not mistake my dollars input for regret. I love my EFI and will never go back just letting you know it is a pricey solution compared to your other choices.

 

[awohlers]

Having just converted a 440 to EFI I can assure you if you are strapped for cash that is not going to be a wallet friendly solution. There are a lot of 2nd and 3rd tier costs associated with the swap.
Everybody and their dog has explained the RPM manifold solution to you so I will just simply say amen. PM me if you want more details on my EFI swap. And by all means do not mistake my dollars input for regret. I love my EFI and will never go back just letting you know it is a pricey solution compared to your other choices.

If you don't mind sharing, about what did your EFI cost you? I figured about $2500-3000 by the time you buy the EFI specific distributor and all the other odds and ends.