Carburetor Question - Is this a good call?

Fuel and Air Systems

  1. crashcaptn

    crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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    Hi all -

    Currently on my '65 Commando 273 I have a Holley 4160 and I'm done fighting with it - I've had nothing but issues with adjustments and sputtering, dying at stoplights (no amount of adjustments seem to keep it going) etc.. I found a rebuilt Edelbrock 1406 and since it's similar to the old Carters that were on these cars, I'm thinking of picking it up and seeing if it fixes my woes.

    I know basically next to nothing about carbs and no buddies who have a knowledge base I can pull from. I've rebuilt a Holley in the past, I understand simple adjustments, and can install them.. but I've had no training or whatever in that department ever other than the good ol "Let's see what happens!"

    My question is if this carburetor is a good match for the '65 273 (and if it is) any tips on installation and such.

    I'll throw some pictures below - a snapshot of the engine with the Holley on it (PS the springs aren't set up like that anymore..) and the new Carburetor I'm debating picking up tomorrow. Let me know your thoughts!

    Thanks,
    Jeff

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    • sireland67

      sireland67 Well-Known Member

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      That Holley should be easy to fix with a new kit, Holley has plenty of videos on their web site to help you thru it.
      Also if you do not know much about carbs, I would suggest anything new, before buying another rebuilt one.
      It may not even be the carb issue, how is the tune on the engine, are the valves adjusted correctly, what is your timing set out, do the basics first before throwing parts at it.
       
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      • crashcaptn

        crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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        Hey thanks man - So I should have stated some of those factors first.

        Engine is strong and has passed with flying colors its leak down test and compression tests. Valves were just adjusted about a month ago and they're proper. Timing was checked and was already perfect last weekend (I don't have the numbers here but i'll get them soon). Basics are actually done, but good on you for asking. I've had what feels like fuel delivery issues for a while AND what I also left out was that gas mileage is horrible, carbon build-up on the exhaust tips, pulled spark plugs and they're showing signs of too much fuel, and when i'm on the freeway after about 10 mins of driving at 50 MPG i start blowing grayish smoke (no oil consumption, no coolant consumption). I rebuild the Holley myself and that was a mistake so I had a very good shop here in San Diego rebuild it professionally. Still. Issues.

        0.jpg 54.jpg
         
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        • sireland67

          sireland67 Well-Known Member

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          It may need jetted down.
          Again watch some holley viedeos, also you bower valve may be bad in the carb.
          If the timing is set to factory specs, it may need more initial like 12 BTC.
           
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          • 4mulas

            4mulas Fixem'up

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            I had a 1406 on my 66 formula S with the 273 commando and it was great. No problems there.

            If you can find the original 500 cfm afb that would be a good match for the motor too.

            Good luck
             
            Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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            • Treblig

              Treblig Well-Known Member

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              I've had problems with Holleys dying at stop lights but it turns out that it was sputtering/dying when the car comes to a stop. Turns out Holleys will sometimes dump fuel into the venturies when you slow down fast. The fuel comes out of the horns that vent into the bowls. i researched the problem on the internet and found that you can stick a small hose and pipe on the horn so that fuel runs up the hose and doesn't overflow into the venturies. I used this fix on two different cars and fixed the sputtering/dying when you come to stop.
               
            • crashcaptn

              crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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              I'll check my timing and see where i set it and report back. I was THINKING about jetting actually.. but with my exp level.. not sure what i can do there.

              I've been looking for that carter everywhere.. but they dont have electric chokes and i'd like that feature.. but good to know it worked well
               
            • sireland67

              sireland67 Well-Known Member

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              If you can turn a screwdriver, you can jet a holley.
              Its only the front four bolts on the front bowl, and two jets in the metering block behind it.
               
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              • crashcaptn

                crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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                I'd need to know what jet size and then yes, you're very correct it isnt difficult
                 
              • Treblig

                Treblig Well-Known Member

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                It takes a little time but it's actually very easy to re-jet a Holley. There's a ton of info on the internet on how to tune a Holley. I have a box full of Holley jets/orifices. The size is written on the parts themselves.
                 
              • sireland67

                sireland67 Well-Known Member

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                And maybe a bowl and metering block gasket.
                Holley does sell a master jet kit with about every jet you would ever need.
                Also for years I just used a common screwdriver, but finally bought the holley jet screwdriver, much easier.

                You may check holleys website, it will tell you what jets came stock in the carb, or give me the list number off the choke horn, I can check my Holley book.
                 
              • Mike69cuda

                Mike69cuda 64 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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                If you are going to rebuild a carburetor buy or borrow an ultrasonic cleaner. They work great for cleaning out all the small passages. If you have to buy one, might be kind of expensive for one job. They are about $200 ohm Amazon for one big enough.

                in my opinion, holleys are great when they are new, but are very frustrating once they get a little old, or you try to rebuild them, but that may just be a reflection of my skill level
                 
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                • Treblig

                  Treblig Well-Known Member

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                  The power valve is also very important for the car will run right. It's also easy to change.
                   
                • 318willrun

                  318willrun Roadkill '80 D150

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                  Not being rude, but what I quoted is the problem. Now, you can buy another carb and you may get lucky and it may run good. But if it don't, you won't know how to fix that one either. So you can buy a 3rd carb, and eventually you'll bolt one on that runs good and you'll be happy. Or, you can learn to fix the one you have now. My opinion, if you own a old car, learn to work on it. It will save you tons of money and frustration. Some problems can be tricky. But the one you are having shouldn't be.
                   
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                  • yellow rose

                    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                    You don't have a carb issue. You have a tune up issue.

                    That thing is PIG rich. It's rich at idle. It's rich at cruise. It's most likely PIG rich at WOT but I can't see that from your pictures.

                    Have no idea what brand that plug is, but it looks cold. It also looks like your initial timing is pretty close. But from the picture, I can't tell if you have way too much total timing or not enough.

                    Either way, that's a tuning issue, not a carb issue.

                    What plug is that?
                     
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                    • 318willrun

                      318willrun Roadkill '80 D150

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                      At this point, we could have a float that is set a 1/2 inch to high, and just drowning the thing, thus the dying when coming to a stop. But Holley will have a bad wrap for this one... LOL :D
                       
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                      • crashcaptn

                        crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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                        Not rude at all - wrote it for a purpose. I'm doing what i can to learn and i'd be very very very interested how to learn to rejet and understand power valves like Mike69cuda stated. I do all my work myself and enjoy it, too.
                         
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                        • crashcaptn

                          crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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                          Yah you're nailing some of my frustration. I'm sure everyone here is right about adjustments on this carb.. in 2004 it ran fine and no smoke. I believe an adjustment or a 4th rebuild... Plugs are NGK. Just bought a new set and some wires, just cause. I'll put those in this weekend for shits and giggles.
                           
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                          • 318willrun

                            318willrun Roadkill '80 D150

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                            If you have the want-to, and enjoy it, you'll get it. Me personally, I'd scratch the "buying another carb" until I dug deeper into what you have. I'd remove it from the car, take it apart, make notes of what you have for jets, float height, etc. Post pictures, that helps us a lot.
                             
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                            • Treblig

                              Treblig Well-Known Member

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                              I posted this earlier but I think you missed it???:


                              "I've had problems with Holleys dying at stop lights but it turns out that it was sputtering/dying when the car comes to a stop. Turns out Holleys will sometimes dump fuel into the venturies when you slow down fast. The fuel comes out of the horns that vent into the bowls. i researched the problem on the internet and found that you can stick a small hose and pipe on the horn so that fuel runs up the hose and doesn't overflow into the venturies. I used this fix on two different cars and fixed the sputtering/dying when you come to stop."
                               
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                              • crashcaptn

                                crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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                                I may just buy this and shelf it for a bit cause the price is realllllyyy good and you all have convinced me to tinker more with what I have.. re-jetting and a power valve may be the ticket.. and i'd love to have some knowledge on carbs. To me they work purely on magic and good vibes..

                                I did, thank you. do you have some pics you can send me or a link? I'm curious.....
                                 
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                                • Treblig

                                  Treblig Well-Known Member

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                                  I made my own but this is the basic idea. The fuel dumps into this tube and dissipates as opposed to dumping into the venturies. This problem haunted me for months until I figued it out. But the jets and power valve are also very important for the engine to run well. Too bad you don't live next door you could use my Holley stuff....no charge!!

                                  One-Piece-Vent-Tube.jpg


                                  DSC08169.JPG DSC08170.JPG DSC08171.JPG
                                   
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                                  • toolmanmike

                                    toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                                    I don't think that 600 would be pig rich unless there is an issue with it. (power valve, float level, heavy float, shrunken metering block gaskets) or the like. That carb should make that 273 run sweet. Yes, it needs new plugs. 12y Champions or equivalent.
                                     
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                                    • crashcaptn

                                      crashcaptn 1965 Dodge Dart GT

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                                      thanks Mike - back in 2004 when i first got it the carb worked fine for it.. so i know it COULD work for the car. Ive been convinced now that an adjustment like what you stated above would be a fix that would work. I believe the gaskets will all be OK since it WAS rebuilt not too long ago.. but im betting float, power valve, or jets need some help.
                                       
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                                      • OL DODGE

                                        OL DODGE Well-Known Member

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                                        And just a thought here -how old is the gas in the tank?
                                         
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