Comp valve keepers- Is this an issue??

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mopowers

mopowers

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My dad and I are putting together a low buck 360LA for his D100. When he went to check the Comp retainers and locks I picked up for his new valve springs, he noticed the new locks are much shorter and don't go around the valve stems as far as the stockers did. Why is this and will it cause an issue?? Should I send them back? The only reason I got him new locks was that he needed 8 new ones for his new exhaust valves anyway (different groove count than the old ones), so I got him the 606-16 Comp kit that comes with all 16 pairs.

First picture is the new retainer with the old locks.

Second picture is the new retainer with the new Comp locks.

Picture0113171739_1.jpg


Picture0113171741_1.jpg
 
Yeah that dont look right! Are they the correct degree/angle?
Cannucky on here almost lost a couple valves due to comp cams keepers almost failing.
We used comps of some sort on Dads 273 with no issues.
 
Something ain't right. The new locks aren't fitting tight against the valve stem.
 
look like you got samller diameter ones on there. 5/16 or 11/32 instead of 3/8
 
Last edited:
GeorgeH said:
look like you got samller diameter ones on there. 5/16 or 11/32 instead of 3/8
Click to expand...
thats what i think
get a caliper, measure the valvestem and see if it is .375 (thats what those locks fit)
 
Here is a thread I started a couple years ago when we were doing dads 273 and replacing top end stuff with comp cams and the issues that I had(brain farts). I hadnt read thru it in a while. Got nostalgic as Dad has passed now, be 3 years in March.
Hope it helps.
273 questions...a few of them
 
Ironmike said:
I think they're the wrong angle. 7 degree vs 10 ...vice versa..
Click to expand...
The more I look at the pics, the more I think you have 10 degree retainers. It wasn't as obvious in the first pic, because the locks are darker, and they are against the stem, but they aren't fitting the retainer right either from what I can see. Check the retainer part number.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I just double checked the part numbers I bought.

Comp 744-16 for the retainers, which are the 7* retainers for 901 springs and 3/8" valve stems (which is correct for our stock valves), and 606-16 for the keepers, which are 8 pairs of 4-groove 7* locks (3/8" valve stems) for the exhaust valves and 8 pairs of 2-groove 7* locks (3/8" valve stems) for the intake valves. Everything should be, for 7* locks and 3/8" valve stems. This should have been exactly what we needed, I believe, but I suppose I could be wrong.

The parts are at my folks house 400 miles away, so my dad is going to go out and check the part numbers for the parts that actually arrived when he gets a chance. Then, I guess we'll take it from there.

It almost looks to me like the grooves in the keepers are bottoming out in the grooves on the valve stem, keeping them from seating all the way. I'll have my dad check that as well.

Thanks again!
 
I used the same 744-16 and 606-16 for my stock 360 heads. They worked perfectly. They should look just like your first picture.
 
Do yourself a favor and search for a thread that Cannucky started about his Comp keepers. He almost dropped several valves. No issues with mine thats almost 5 years now.
 
Kind of hard to tell from a pic, got the same impression GeorgeH did, keep in mind that the factory exh. keepers butted together intentionally. Perf. versions do not, the OE's
let the valve rotate some, but did not grip the stem tightly. That is not what You want if serious spring loads are anticipated.
 
Just talked my dad. Apparently, the part numbers all match as they should. I asked him to hold up one lock to the valve stem to see if it was tight, and he said it was tight to the stem, so the sizing was correct; they are made for 3/8" stems.

Since it seems they're tight to the stem, he says they're just a little short "side-to-side", if that makes sense; the gap between the two locks is a lot larger than the stockers. I'm going to call Comp, on Monday, when they are open to see what they have to say about it. At this point, I'm inclined to tell him to run the stock intake valve keepers, since they seem tighter.

Further, I asked him how the exhaust valve locks look. He said they are a lot tighter against each other, and even touch. I didn't think valve keepers were supposed to touch... What's with after market parts these days???
 
mopowers said:
My dad and I are putting together a low buck 360LA for his D100. When he went to check the Comp retainers and locks I picked up for his new valve springs, he noticed the new locks are much shorter and don't go around the valve stems as far as the stockers did. Why is this and will it cause an issue?? Should I send them back? The only reason I got him new locks was that he needed 8 new ones for his new exhaust valves anyway (different groove count than the old ones), so I got him the 606-16 Comp kit that comes with all 16 pairs.

First picture is the new retainer with the old locks.

Second picture is the new retainer with the new Comp locks.

View attachment 1715007644

View attachment 1715007645
Click to expand...



The top picture looks correct.

The bottom picture looks like a failure waiting to happen.
 
You never mentioned who is the mfg for the new exhaust valves? I bet they are just mismatched to the new locks you bought. I have 627-16 here at home, they are for 3/8" stems BUT they are for 10* valve stems. I measured the ID of them and get 0.2990 this is with them held together(I have no valves here). The OD on these is 0.5660. This is for the 4 groove ones, cant remember if that is for intake or exhaust(I believe they are different).
I dont have NEW 2 grooves, only used ones, so turn the clock back 5 years and I believe we ordered the 627-16 3/8 10* kit and used the new 2 grooves out of it.
Sorry no valve here to help with that.

20170115_151432.jpg
 
4spdragtop said:
You never mentioned who is the mfg for the new exhaust valves? I bet they are just mismatched to the new locks you bought.
Click to expand...

The new exhaust valves are stock replacement 4-groove valves from Rock Auto:
More Information for ENGINETECH V1721

The exhaust valves don't seem to be an issue though. Here is a new picture of the springs with retainers and locks installed. The intake side is the one that is having issues, although, when the old locks are used, they seem to be fine (2nd photo). For whatever reason, the new 2-groove intake locks just don't seem to want to "seat" in the retainer. Any ideas what might be going on??? I'm going to Comp a call tomorrow and see if they have any ideas.

IMG950618.jpg


IMG950617.jpg
 
Intake valve is old correct? Old locks fit correct? New exhaust valve and NEW locks fit? Tells me your new valves and locks are a different degree than your old ones. No big deal run the old ones on old valves as long as there isnt any wear or damage. AND that your new RETAINERS except both different degrees of locks. Caps are for emphasis, not yelling lol
 
i checked Rock auto link and there is no spec as to what degree they make the valves at? Obviously if the new 606-16 fit the Engine tech valves, I would assume ET valves are 7 degree. SOOO that leads me to believe the old valve and lock would be 10 degree
 
4spdragtop said:
Intake valve is old correct? Old locks fit correct? New exhaust valve and NEW locks fit? Tells me your new valves and locks are a different degree than your old ones. No big deal run the old ones on old valves as long as there isnt any wear or damage. AND that your new RETAINERS except both different degrees of locks. Caps are for emphasis, not yelling lol
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, but I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying. You are correct, the intake valves are the old stockers, and the old 2-groove locks fit, as they should. The exhaust valves are new, and the new locks fit. The new 744-16 Comp retainers are 7* as are the stock locks. The new locks are supposed to be 7* as well, but maybe Comp dropped in some 10* intake locks in the package, since the intake and exhaust locks are different due to different groove counts. Although, by looking at them, they sure don't look like 10* locks to me, though I could be wrong.

4spdragtop said:
i checked Rock auto link and there is no spec as to what degree they make the valves at? Obviously if the new 606-16 fit the Engine tech valves, I would assume ET valves are 7 degree. SOOO that leads me to believe the old valve and lock would be 10 degree
Click to expand...

I'm not quite following this either. From my understanding, valves aren't made to accept a specific degree locks. You can use either 10* or 7* locks and retainers on the valves as long as the retainers and corresponding locks match one another, obviously. But the valves don't require a specific degree locking system. The old locks are stock 7*.
 
Ok, I think I get you. The retainers have to match the locks, as far as degrees go? Your new retainers 744-16 are for 7* locks, which you have(606-16). So new stuff is good for new valves. Im re=reading my thread I linked above as we had the EXACT same issue. In my thread link the pics dont show up immediately but if you click on them they show up pita lol. Lemme do some reading.
 
4spdragtop said:
Your new retainers 744-16 are for 7* locks, which you have(606-16).
Click to expand...

This is where there might possibly be the issue. The 606-16 part number consists of 8 pairs of Comp #604, 7* 4-groove locks (for the exhaust valves) and 8 pairs of Comp #602, 7* 2-groove locks (for the intake valves). The 604s seem fine. I'm thinking either they included 8 pairs of locks different than 602s, or the 602s are just **** and don't fit correctly. We'll see what Comp says tomorrow when I call. I appreciate the help! I'm just glad my dad noticed since he's building the engine at his place.
 
Whats funny is in my thread I ordered 627-16 which I believe is 8 pr 4 groove & 8 pr 2 groove but I got 16 pr of 4 groove lol.
 
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