Coolant leak -hydro locked engine

[nm9stheham]

It would have to go wide open to do that. I have been in a car that did that, but it dropped a valve and busted a dime sized hole in the head. Good that it did not.

RRR, I understand what you are saying about the welding, but they are costly heads and what do you have to lose by making a good attempt? Grind lightly around the bad area, probe into the head, and you may be able to figure out if it is one thin spot or not. I sure as heck would not toss them without some quality, in-depth examination time.

 

[A body]

having experienced a situation similar to this when my dad was still wheeling the car, I'd NOT use that rod again.

...and what do you have to lose? a complete cylinder head!! That was the reason I chose to not go W2 and went with W5's thinking the aluminum head could be repaired by welding. Boy did I get an education! Personally I think I'd be looking in to ways to "backfill" that area with an epoxy. good luck.

 

[RustyRatRod]

what do you have to lose by making a good attempt?

Having a repeat of the same situation. There are some fantastic welders out there. I know one. None of them are miracle workers.

 

[nm9stheham]

Guess I am dense..... head is a paperweight with a hole in it....???? Epoxy?? Screws? I do know one guy here who I would take it to to see what he would do to fix it...

 

[RustyRatRod]

Guess I am dense..... head is a paperweight with a hole in it....???? Epoxy?? Screws? I do know one guy here who I would take it to to see what he would do to fix it...

No, I never said you were dense. I am simply stating my opinion. I wouldn't care what kinda heads they were. They'd be in my scrap pile. I may be the dense one, but I would have a known good head on that engine.

 

[nm9stheham]

...and what do you have to lose? a complete cylinder head!! That was the reason I chose to not go W2 and went with W5's thinking the aluminum head could be repaired by welding. Boy did I get an education! Personally I think I'd be looking in to ways to "backfill" that area with an epoxy. good luck.

Now we need to know what happened to your w5 head(s)....

 

[A body]

not to veer to far off course: had W5 heads ported, 50 passes 3I leaking water, sent head back to porter.... he epoxied it. 150 passes later engine dies on return road, epoxy failed flooded cylinder, removed head and sent it to a recommended shop.... guy had brought Brodix sprint car heads back from the dead. He had the head three months and it would basically crumble when he tried to weld on it. Hindsite being what it is I would have acid washed the water jackets, and literally poured a layer of epoxy inside of it.... of course we'd always would have had the "what if it leaks again" issue looming over us. My dad took that short block and put our other set of W5's on it.... two passes later #3 rod broke in two.... the end.

 

[nm9stheham]

Interesting.....thanks for the info. One thing about AL castings is that the material can vary. I have had AL wheels with the wrong AL material was used, and they would crumble with the smallest hit. Sounds like you got some crappy AL material (or maybe that is what is used for AL heads...??). Would not expect that issue with cast iron.....

 

[A body]

similar situation.... two different alloys. It's my understanding cast is very difficult to weld properly. Looks like to me if you try and weld it, and it doesn't work (which odds seem to play more favorable in that direction)..... you got yourself a new wheel chock. Guess I'd figure the odds would be better to try and glue that sucker up and move on. Crappy situation to be in for sure. Might have been a good time to try some CRC stop leak.

 

[dwire67]

Well I have another set of heads, ported X heads , rocker arms and push rods, that I picked up awhile ago. I am going to have my local guy check theses out and clean them up and use them on the engine. I still have to have the short block checked out. Just with all that water in the oil and the bearings , rings and the rod in that cylinder need to be checked.
Not sure what I am going to do with my W2's just yet?

 

[TrailBeast]

I wouldn't use epoxy on anything practically, because JB weld flows about the same and is WAY tougher.

I know it don't mean squat overall because it's just another a-hole with an opinion
But this is what I would do if it were my head and I was trying to save it.
First I would chip any loose material off in and around that hole and get it down to solid material.
Then I would use a small piece of plastic coffee can lid on a stem of some sort so I could push it through the hole but still have ahold of it behind the hole.
Then I would flush it with Muriatic acid, then water and blow it dry.

While holding the plastic "backing" in place I would inject about a teaspoon of the slow set JB weld into the hole.
THEN, I would stand that head so the hole was directly under the JB weld so it could lay down and solidify over it inside the water jacket.
Once it set up for 24 hrs I would go back and grind down the stem that held the plastic backer and refill that dibbit with JB

I would watch it close after, but I'll bet that would do it.

(Like I said, just another opinion) but based on knowing my adhesives and sealers more than most I believe.

On that note, I have successfully welded some pretty sketchy stuff, and I don't think I would even try that on it.
Attempting a weld right there with how thin it must be in that area, a waste of time IMO.
Probably just instantly blow a much bigger hole in it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The only problem I would have with that, is JB Weld is NOT impervious to gasoline.

 

[mech1nxh]

I still have to have the short block checked out. Just with all that water in the oil and the bearings , rings and the rod in that cylinder need to be checked.

& THX for the pics.!!! 'burn' patterns seem pretty consistent.

Not sure what I am going to do with my W2's just yet?

To weld or epoxy ?, junk or not? ...

Source a proven 'high end' shop & have the heads SONIC CHECKED.

After,- note here- complete, thorough , meticulous, ck 5x type cleaning !!!
debris 'skew' readings

As to weld or epoxy ---not choosing sides.
Anecdote,
Had this one AL head off a short fuse turbo motor, cracked, time to weld it up.
Simple right ? not so simple ! the silicone content in the alloy, not so conducive
to repair!
Next the AL alloy wicks & stores oil, no matter how much its 'cleaned'
We would start a bead, the heat would leech oil out of the AL.
Solution !!! just pop that puppy in the Baylor Cleaning Oven & BAKE OUT
all that nasty oil residue --- NOT---
Turned into a door stop.

 

[TrailBeast]

The only problem I would have with that, is JB Weld is NOT impervious to gasoline.

Really?
I have never had a problem with it in a fuel related repair.
Could that be because I use the Loctite brand with real metal in it? (even recommended for cast repairs and high heat applications?)
I have even used it for sealing carb base plugs (you know, the ones that the plugs in the bottom of fuel bowls leak and drain into the engine.) Never a problem or reoccurrence there either.

I have always had issue's with epoxies (the clearish stuff) crystalizing or flaking off around fuel.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Not sure, but I do know the regular JB Weld isn't for use around gas. We sell a product at work I was lookin at tonight called SteelStick that's a 2 part epoxy putty that you open and knead together. Says you can machine it and even thread it when cured and it also says you can use it around fuel. It sorta reminds me of the 2 part putty that you repair gas tanks with.

 

[dwire67]

Anybody ever use this stuff?
Hi-Temp Lab-metal

SKU 11101
Permanent repair compound - withstands 1000ºF. Hi-Temp Lab-metal is ready-to-use right from the can. Developed for difficult repairs subject to excessive heat, Hi-Temp Lab-metal withstands temperatures as high as 1000ºF

 

[dwire67]

Not sure the wife would like me using the oven, but I could get away with the BBQ grill

In order for Hi-Temp Lab-metal to completly harden after a 24 hour air dry time, it must be exposed to a minimum temperature of 425ºF for a period of at least one hour depending on thickness of application. (The curing process may be achieved by a more gradual "heat-up", as in the repair of an industrial oven or exhaust. In this case, as the oven is heating, the Hi-Temp Lab-metal repair is curing.)

 

[TrailBeast]

It never gets anywhere near that hot in that area.
If it did it would instantly vaporize the coolant in the head in all our engines.

 

[dwire67]

I didn't think it got that hot..LOL I just thought it could stand those temps better than other epoxy I think it might work?

 

[nm9stheham]

Well, you sure have a good sense of humor... LOL ! Sounds like good stuff. I do recall that the original 351C heads had a poor exhaust port shape at the outlet, and some folks would epoxy up the floors of the exh ports to improve the flow. So, there is some good stuff out there and you are on the intake side and behind a seat so, that ought to be better. (The 351C exh port epoxy DID fall out sometimes....)

Heating cast iron parts to that temp range before welding is common practice. I'd have to wonder if the heads would warp a bit though, and would expect them to be checked for the seats, concentricity, and deck flatness.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

I'd say it depends on your budget and your comfort zone.

But it seems fairly simple really. "You" have to decide on your type. If your the nervous or rich type - throw money at it now (daily driver/wife's grocery getter). Never leave the wife on the side of the road if she's any good. If your the good olde boy type (budget race, great depression era/early boomer/like to marvel at your own genius). Repair and worry about it if it fails next time.

Me, I'm a mid boomer and watched granddad/father pull some great repairs. Think hay season and the bailer's cast iron needle breaks. Brazed back together years ago and still going strong. But I also watched them have to dig out broken wooden fence posts and replace (it sucks). They didn't have the budget then. I have the budget for metal now, and that's what I use.

 

[dwire67]

I was upset at first that they failed.. but crap happens! What really upset me was why I had not been told that they had problem when the engine was being built all they had to say was we have problem with one head and had to epoxy it and not sure it it will hold what do want to do get a new head or fix what I have. Just be up front and tell me what is going on. If I paid $500 for some guy to build my engine , I would not been upset. I paid a lot of money for this engine and the builder is suppose to be top notch and came highly recommended to me. But hell they are only a thing and I will try and fix them. As they say life goes on and why not have fun...

 

[nm9stheham]

^^^^ That is what I would want..... the business card, I mean LOL. Yes, if you had known, then you could have been checking for it. Poke around in there and see if you can figure if it is a general wide thin area, or just a casting void in that spot. If just a void, life should be better.

 

[trapster]

Hmm, I wonder how many other ports you have in that head are thin and about to fail?

 

[dwire67]

Well the saga continues -torn the short block down.
Piston to wall clearance was way to tight -all 8 pistons are scored.