Correct Water Pump for Early 273 w/ AC

Heating / Cooling / AC

  1. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    I ordered the Gates 42553 water pump listed on Rock Auto for my 65 Dart 273 with AC. But when I compared it to the old pump I noticed a problem.

    It has an extra 1/2 NPT inlet on the top left.
    View attachment New Pump.jpg

    This inlet creates a bulge in the water pump casting between the two bolt holes where the AC compressor bracket is supposed to mount. Here is a photo of my old water pump with the AC compressor and other brackets attached.
    View attachment Old Pum.jpg

    Do I have the wrong water pump, or do I have the wrong AC compressor bracket? I've combed through photos of other early A's with AC and they seem to have different alternator brackets than I do, although none of the pictures really shows the AC compressor brackets.
    View attachment Brackets.jpg

    There are four other water pumps listed on Rock Auto, all with pictures, and none of them has this extra inlet. Only the one I purchased, which is the only one called out for cars with AC, has this extra inlet, although the photo provided does not show the top of this pump with the extra inlet. I can't imagine what this extra inlet would be used for, or how it would be necessary for Air Conditioning.

    I have read that 1965 cars with Air Conditioning got a different water pump with extra blades on the impeller. But I don't know how many blades. The Gates pump has 8 blades.
     
  2. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    According to the fender tag this car is a factory AC car. But what if the compressor and brackets got separated from the car and then later replaced with the dealer installed version which would have been designed to work with the non AC water pump.

    Just a theory.
     
  3. krazykuda

    krazykuda Well-Known Member FABO Gold Member How-To Section Editor

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    Is there any way to grind a notch in the brackets or grind a little off of the casting to make it fit without "hurting" anything?
     
  4. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    I think I would rather just get the "non-AC" water pump.
     
  5. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    I think what I really need is a clear picture of what the brackets are supposed to look like for a car with factory air. I've seen pictures of 66's with AC. But I'm not sure if 65 and 66 are the same.
     
  6. Oklacarcollecto

    Oklacarcollecto Life is an experiment

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    I have had much better luck by buying remanufactured water pumps.

    Your original pump is what I have on my AC 68 car and also what this auction shows for a factory water pump on an AC car.

    [ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1969-Duster-Dart-Cuda-Swinger-GTS-GT-Valiant-NOS-MoPar-318-340-WATER-PUMP-/150298896735?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item22fe83295f&vxp=mtr"]1968 1969 Duster Dart Cuda Swinger GTS GT Valiant Mopar 318 340 Water Pump | eBay[/ame]
     
  7. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    Educate me. Is the pump I bought a new casting, as opposed to a casting from back in the day?

    How can you tell the pump in the eBay listing is correct for a 65? The listing says 68-69.
     
  8. Oklacarcollecto

    Oklacarcollecto Life is an experiment

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    Yes, what you have is casting that doesn't match the original. The eBay water pump is listed as a 68 and 69 because of the casting number. Frank can sell it at a premium by listing it that way. Here is the same pump listed with your car included. I didn't show you it to start with because the problem area wasn't shown.

    [ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-MOPAR-1964-9-SMALL-BLOCK-WATER-PUMP-273-318-340-WITH-AIR-CONDITIONING-/231046584986?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35cb731a9a&vxp=mtr"]Mopar 1964 9 Small Block Water Pump 273 318 340 with Air Conditioning | eBay[/ame]
     
  9. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'll be spending $195 for a water pump, but the listing does shed a little light on things.

    That pump has the same casting number as my old water pump, 30787.

    Maybe I should buy a rebuild kit instead?
     
  10. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    I found this press release for 1965 model year factory ac.

    http://www.foundationpc.com/press/press65c.html#components

    Of note is this section:
    View attachment AC Cooling Specs.jpg

    The water pump that came with my car has a 3.5" impeller with 6 blades. The new Gates 42553 water pump has a 4.1" impeller with 8 blades.

    Looks like the AC cars got a smaller impeller, but also different pulleys so it spins faster. Now I have to measure my pulleys to make sure I have the right ratio? My recollection is that the fan pulley is smaller than the crank pulley. I'll measure them tomorrow.
     
  11. PocketAces

    PocketAces Well-Known Member

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    I measured the pulleys. Crank pulley is approx. 7 3/8". Water pump pulley is approx 5 3/4". That gives a ratio of 1.28:1. So at least that checks out.

    Rock Auto will take back the water pump, and Oreilly's has a pump in stock that might be right. At least I'll be able to bench compare them and make sure what I'm getting is right.
     
  12. mvh

    mvh FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Just FYI, Rock Auto sent me that same pump body for a 67 273 w/o air. The extra inlet isn't in the way, but it doesn't have the machined face around the alternator bracket holes, so I can't use it either. I think that must be the only new casting Gates is working with now. Which rules them out, IMO.
     
  13. Oklacarcollecto

    Oklacarcollecto Life is an experiment

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    I have gotten my re-manufactured pumps at Oreillys and so far they have been correct. I am thinking I might need to pick up a couple of spares before those new crap Gates castings start end up on the re-manufacturing process.
     
  14. Teeth & Tires

    Teeth & Tires A-retentive Legendary Member

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    Thread revival for those who search....

    I wound up with that same damn Gates pump with the 3rd outlet on top and I can't use it on my original factory A/C car either. Not to mention, where the bypass hose fitting would thread in is a full 1-inch diameter; not the 3/4" it is supposed to be so my hose nipple doesn't fit.

    I read in some other forums about that possibly being a marine motor pump. Hell if I know.
     
  15. jimbooli

    jimbooli New Member

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    I know this is an old thread and you may be past this point. I recently started again on a project I started some 30 years ago.:banghead:I have a '64 Valiant that I am trying to put back together, that I am adding air to also. If I recall, the donor car was a '65 Valiant that I got all the air parts off of. Anyway, you were questioning your brackets, and they are different. Here's a couple of photos, not great but should help.
     

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    • BillGrissom

      BillGrissom Well-Known Member

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      jimbooli,
      Thanks. I recall seeing a post before of those brackets for 273 w/ factory AC. The alternator brackets are much different than for non-AC cars (my 65 Dart). Those must be hard parts to locate today. My alternator uses a single fan belt.
       
    • cn8dn

      cn8dn Member

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      As another replacement option, it would seem Cardone also re-manufactures the correct water pump casting for those with factory A/C. It's listed as Cardone Part #58180 and is available from The Wrench Monkey ($45.74 CDN on the .ca version of their site). $29.97 US, from Summit Racing. Same part # O'Reilly Auto Parts lists for their MasterPro re-manufactured water pump application (with A/C) and the file images look correct on all sites. Unfortunately, O'Reilly's doesn't ship to Canada so Cardone is the only economical choice here.
       
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