Custom modifying new wheel studs to fit?

[timk225]

I am working on my 1973 Plymouth Duster, and wanted to make better use of the rear wheel wells, and eliminate the "fat butt woman in tight dress from the rear" look of the rear wheel track being too narrow because Chrysler was too cheap to make the axle a little wider.

So I got a set of 30 mm (1.18") wheel spacers on Summit Racing, and a set of Milodon #86165 3" wheel studs. Supposed to be for a Dana 60. Supposed to fit. Not quite.

I was working on the car today, and brought my vernier caliper to take some exact measurements. The package for the wheel studs claim the knurl area is .675". But I measured 0.685" across the knurls. And even worse, one of the OEM wheel studs that I tapped out of an axle shaft only measured 0.665" across the knurls. So I need to turn them down a bit, probably by chucking them up in a drill and spinning them while holding a file against them. I really need access to a lathe.

Then there's the issue of the stud length. My lug nuts are the closed end type to look right with the Rallye wheels. They would bottom out at 19 turns onto the wheel studs. With the OEM wheel studs, they are turning 9-10 turns onto the studs when the wheel is on tight. I think the lug nuts will bottom out on a 3" stud before tightening down the wheel properly. So I think I need to trim them to about 2.70", give or take 0.10". 5 threads are about 1/4" on these lugs, which are 1/2-20.

Anyone ever have to make modifications to new wheel studs like this? I pulled the axle shafts out of the 7-1/4" today to get new wheel bearings, so this is my chance.

 

[junkyardhero]

okay, so a lot going on here.

first, i'd say adios the wheel studs you bought and get ones with the correct knurl and length.

second, the knurl is what holds the stud in place. if you file off the knurl to make it fit, then you're relying on only a non-exact press fit. to me, that doesn't end well. i suppose on way of overcoming that is with a little tack weld.

third, i've never had good luck cutting down studs and then getting the lugs to thread clean afterward. it always seemed like a struggle and i was tempting the cross threading fates every time. YMMV, RNT et al.

 

[MV8]

i've never had good luck cutting down studs and then getting the lugs to thread clean afterward. it always seemed like a struggle and i was tempting the cross threading fates every time. YMMV, RNT et al.

Fit a nut on the stud before cutting, then remove the nut.

 

[timk225]

okay, so a lot going on here.

first, i'd say adios the wheel studs you bought and get ones with the correct knurl and length.

second, the knurl is what holds the stud in place. if you file off the knurl to make it fit, then you're relying on only a non-exact press fit. to me, that doesn't end well. i suppose on way of overcoming that is with a little tack weld.

third, i've never had good luck cutting down studs and then getting the lugs to thread clean afterward. it always seemed like a struggle and i was tempting the cross threading fates every time. YMMV, RNT et al.

It has been difficult to find what I need. Original length studs are easily available, but anything beyond that is difficult. Finding one with both the correct knurl size and length is near impossible. Then there is the whole press in / screw in thing eliminating more choices. Even getting one with the right knurl size but longer than stock gives few choices. I thought of the possible thread problems, I'll have at least a nut and possibly a tap/die on the threads before trimming the studs, to clean up the threads right from the start.

I've heard of ymmv but what is rnt?

 

[Dana67Dart]

You're doing this on a 7 1/4?????

Here's the thing... If the lug nut ever gets stuck on the stud and you don't have good knurl engagement the stud will spin when you try to take it off. Now you have an issue, how do you stop the stud from spinning when you can not get to the back side?

IMHO wheel spacers are the worst way to achieve what you are trying to get and over an inch is excessive. What you are doing is moving the center line of the tire outward by an inch, you are placing much more force on the axle near the bearing than it may have been designed for.


If you are hell bent on doing it then you could have the holes in the axle redrilled for the needed undersize for the knurl on the longer studs.

Somewhere screw in studs were mentioned, but they can have the same issue.


Options


You could swap out your axle for an 8 3/4 from a B-body, they are wider by an amount, but the perches need to be relocated.

You could custom make an 8 3/4 to your exact width needs

You could get wheels with the correct back spacing to put the tire where you want.

There are spacers that use the existing studs and use nuts to built into the axle then it has studs on it that bolt the wheel to the spacer. More often seem on pattern size changes like 5x4" to 5x4.5" but I bet a machinist could make some that have the same pattern on both sides. And out of a material better than cast pot metal or aluminum

 

[CRUZE 418]

Fat butt woman in a tight dress? I am at a total loss here, better that I just walk away.

 

[dr dodge]

You're doing this on a 7 1/4?????

Here's the thing... If the lug nut ever gets stuck on the stud and you don't have good knurl engagement the stud will spin when you try to take it off. Now you have an issue, how do you stop the stud from spinning when you can not get to the back side?

IMHO wheel spacers are the worst way to achieve what you are trying to get and over an inch is excessive. What you are doing is moving the center line of the tire outward by an inch, you are placing much more force on the axle near the bearing than it may have been designed for.


If you are hell bent on doing it then you could have the holes in the axle redrilled for the needed undersize for the knurl on the longer studs.

Somewhere screw in studs were mentioned, but they can have the same issue.


Options


You could swap out your axle for an 8 3/4 from a B-body, they are wider by an amount, but the perches need to be relocated.

You could custom make an 8 3/4 to your exact width needs

You could get wheels with the correct back spacing to put the tire where you want.

There are spacers that use the existing studs and use nuts to built into the axle then it has studs on it that bolt the wheel to the spacer. More often seem on pattern size changes like 5x4" to 5x4.5" but I bet a machinist could make some that have the same pattern on both sides. And out of a material better than cast pot metal or aluminum

I plan on using a b body in mine, and reshaping the fender holes/inner fenders on my wagon conversion
simple, easy, all mopar stuff

 

[340six]

All that work and will still have small tires but pushed out.
Adapters are not good. My buddy owns a tire shop. I have seen what happened with them

 

[YY1]

A 65-67 B body 8 3/4 axle is the exact length to make the rear track the same as the front A body "disk brake" track width.

...and they are cheaper and easier to find than 68-70 axles.

You might even find one close to the price of all your studs, adapters, mods and labor.

...and a LOT safer.

 

[YY1]

An 8 1/4 from an F/M/J body car is also real close.

...but the gear ratio is usually real high (2.4x:1 or possibly worse) and a lot harder to change.

 

[junkyardhero]

I've heard of ymmv but what is rnt?

results not typical

 

[33IMP]

Even tho I am using spacers on a couple of my cars, including a pair bigger than yours..... getting a wheel you like with the proper backspace and width for the tire you want to run is a FAR better solution!
Imo, a far easier and cheaper solution than a rearend swap.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Imo, a far easier and cheaper solution than a rearend swap

But he has a 7-1/4

 

[33IMP]

But he has a 7-1/4

Nothing wrong with a 7 1/4 if you don't put a badass motor in front of it.



And now there is LITERALLY a mishimoto wheel spacer add directly under this post (at least on my tablet)
Definitely NOT a coincidence! .

 

[Dana67Dart]

And now there is LITERALLY a mishimoto wheel spacer add directly under this post (at least on my tablet).

Gold Members don't see adds!!!!! its a good and a bad thing at the same time

 

[Dana67Dart]

Nothing wrong with a 7 1/4

I agree, mine passed 340,000 miles before I replaced it, and that's only because it had been run on 6 oz of oil for an undetermined amount of time. BUT if the OP is going to go to all this trouble to deal with lug studs, spacers and such to move ralley wheels out an inch, why not do it right.

My lug nuts are the closed end type to look right with the Rallye wheels

 

[1MeanA]

The wide spacers I have seen get bolted to the axle hub and have separate studs for mounting the wheel. They do not use long studs.

Ps for the record I still think its a bad idea

 

[timk225]

The wide spacers I have seen get bolted to the axle hub and have separate studs for mounting the wheel. They do not use long studs.

Ps for the record I still think its a bad idea

I don't like the idea of spacers that bolt to the original studs then have separate studs for the wheel. Much less metal in there holding everything together.

 

[timk225]

You're doing this on a 7 1/4?????

Here's the thing... If the lug nut ever gets stuck on the stud and you don't have good knurl engagement the stud will spin when you try to take it off. Now you have an issue, how do you stop the stud from spinning when you can not get to the back side?

IMHO wheel spacers are the worst way to achieve what you are trying to get and over an inch is excessive. What you are doing is moving the center line of the tire outward by an inch, you are placing much more force on the axle near the bearing than it may have been designed for.


If you are hell bent on doing it then you could have the holes in the axle redrilled for the needed undersize for the knurl on the longer studs.

Somewhere screw in studs were mentioned, but they can have the same issue.


Options


You could swap out your axle for an 8 3/4 from a B-body, they are wider by an amount, but the perches need to be relocated.

You could custom make an 8 3/4 to your exact width needs

You could get wheels with the correct back spacing to put the tire where you want.

There are spacers that use the existing studs and use nuts to built into the axle then it has studs on it that bolt the wheel to the spacer. More often seem on pattern size changes like 5x4" to 5x4.5" but I bet a machinist could make some that have the same pattern on both sides. And out of a material better than cast pot metal or aluminum

Maybe I'm not understanding something, so explain this further. You're saying that instead of using a spacer to push the wheel out, I should get wheels with altered back spacing. How is that different? Wouldn't an altered backspace wheel lever on the axle shaft just like a wheel spacer?

And my wheels are big bolt pattern, just to clarify. If I were going to change axles, I'd want to stick with an 8-1/4", correct for the year plus it is already big bolt pattern. According to a chart I found here recently, an F body 8-1/4" is 2.94" wider on the wheel track, and 1.44" wider on the spring mounts. I'd take advantage of an 8-1/4" swap to find some 2.94 gears and rebuild a sure-grip for it.

 

[33IMP]

I don't like the idea of spacers that bolt to the original studs then have separate studs for the wheel. Much less metal in there holding everything together.

Agree.
My big spacers are used on a tubbed chassis car set up for huge tires, and I still use them. But I also wanted to run "small tire" races, so I bought 315 60 15 drag radials, and the right width custom wheels for them, (12") with the least backspace available.
To make them look less ridiculous, I use long studs and a "jeep" spacer, (5 on 5) with the spacer bolted with nuts to the disc, so the spacer can't move, and the wheel bolted to the left-over stud length.
It works, but it's not the ideal solution.

 

[Dana67Dart]

. You're saying that instead of using a spacer to push the wheel out, I should get wheels with altered back spacing. How is that different?

It is still harder on the axles but at least there are no additional parts to break.

 

[340six]

Proper wheel adapters bolt onto the existing lugs with locktite and lug nuts. And wheel is attached with the adapters new studs.
No way would I use a one inch piece of metal and longer studs.

 

[YY1]

The 62-70 B body listing in that chart is WRONG.

62-64 are press on drums that you don't want and 62-67 are narrower than 68-70.

65-67 is literally perfect.

 

[matthon]

64 and earlier with tapered axles can easily be updated with new axles, backing plates, but $.

62-63 the narrowest.
64 the widest.

Below copied from another post:

Here is the complete chart.

Mopar 8 3/4" Rear End Dimensions

........................................
........................................

8 3/4" axle shaft lengths measured from the tip of the splined end
to the outside of the flange:

A BODY
'66-'72= 27 11/16"

B BODY
'65-'67= 28 7/8"
'68-'70= 29 3/16"
'71-'74= 30 5/8"
'71-'73 wagon= 31 21/64"

C BODY
'65-'69= 30"
'70-'71= 30 5/8" (Chrysler & Fury)
'70-'73= 31 21/64" (and '69 wagon)


IMPERIAL (Large Bolt Pattern)
'65-'66= 30 1/8"
'67-'69= 30 5/16"
'70-'71= 29"
'72-'73= 31 7/16"

E BODY
'70-'74= 29 31/32"

A100
'65-'70= 30"

D100
'65-'71= 31 1/8"
'72-'74= 31 21/64

...........................................
...........................................

Housing widths, flange to flange

A BODY
'66-'72= 52 5/8"

B BODY
'62-'63= 53 1/4" (And '64 Max Wedge)
'64 = 55 5/8" (Exc. Max Wedge)
'65-'67= 54 1/4"
'68-'70= 54 15/16"
'71-'74= 57 7/8"
'71-'73 wagon= 59 7/16"

C BODY
'65-'69= 56 3/4"
'70-'71= 57 7/8" (Chrysler & Fury)
'70-'74= 59 7/16" (and '69 wagon)

IMPERIAL
'65-'66= 57"
'67-'69= 57 3/8"
'70-'71= 54 3/4"
'72-'73= 59 5/8"

E BODY
'70-'74= 56 31/64"

A100
'65-'70= 56 3/4"

D100
'65-'71= 58 5/16"
'72-'74= 59 7/16"

.........................................
.........................................

Rear end widths, drum-to-drum:

A BODY
'66-'72= 57 1/8"

B BODY
'62-'63= 58 1/2" (And '64 Max Wedge)
'64 = 60 7/8" (Exc.Max Wedge)
'65-'67= 59 1/2"
'68-'70= 60 1/8"
'71-'74= 63"
'71-'73 wagon= 64 3/8"

C BODY

'65-'69= 61.75"
'70-'71= 63.0" (Chrysler & Fury)
'70-'73= 64 3/8" (and '69 wagon)

IMPERIAL
'65-'66= 61 15/16"
'67-'69= 62 5/16"
'70-'71= 59 3/4"
'72-'73= 64 9/16"

E BODY
'70-'74= 61 5/8"

A100
'65-'70= 61 3/4"

D100
'65-'71= 63 15/16"
'72-'74= 64 3/8"

........................................
........................................
Spring perch widths (center-to-center)

A BODY
'66-73= 43"

B BODY
'62-'70= 44"
'71-'74= 47.3"

C BODY
'65-'73= 46"

E BODY
'70-'74= 46"

 

[timk225]

ALL F/M/J cars would use the same axle dimensions on an 8-1/4"? I know Aspen and Volare, but what else is there? Dodge Diplomat or other cars and of what years? Biggest problem I see is a lot of them having gears higher than 2.71 and using the wrong ring gear spaced carrier. Doesn't matter if I am finding a sure-grip to rebuild and add 2.94 gears into, I guess. The axle housing itself isn't any different for the high gear ratios, just the ring gear carrier?