........What is everyone using for a battery disconnect switch when using an alternator.....My old 2 post Taylor will not kill the engine while its charging.....The tech guys get alittle excited if I forget to unplug the regulator or alternator field......thanks........kim.......
.........cut off switch...........
- Thread starter oldkimmer
- Start date
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rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
4 pole switch with a jumper wire. You need to run a wire all the way back to the battery.
Also, might want to think about a continuous duty solenoid to kill the alt. wire dead when you cut power.
On my phone now, can post pics/more details later if needed.
Also, might want to think about a continuous duty solenoid to kill the alt. wire dead when you cut power.
On my phone now, can post pics/more details later if needed.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Minor correction. Proper terminology is TWO pole
You want a 2 pole, FOUR terminal switch. There are several on the market now
You can use the small terminals to kill the ignition circuit through a relay, and that will stop the alternator from causing run-on. Several ways to do that.
..........thanks, rmchrgr,.........................kim........
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
X2 on the continuous duty solenoid
Everything forward of the trunk battery is dead when you hit the kill switch.
I carry a jumper in the trunk I can bolt in to get home if the continuous duty solenoid ever fails.
If it's a dedicated race car, wire it to the cut off switch so when you flip it on, the CD relay is energized.
If it's a street car, trigger the CD relay from a switched source. This way the amp draw to keep the CD relay energized doesn't drain your battery while parked.
I do the same, carry a jumper, then you are no worse than the alt line direct to battery folks...
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
My set up may be a little different than most. I have a Denso 60 amp alternator that does not have a voltage regulator but I don't believe a regular OE type alternator will be much different in this case. I also have an MSD so I got rid of the V.R. and ballast wiring. Last, I have a terminal buss/stud on the firewall that connects everything together. The alt. output goes to the stud and everything feeds off that. In addition, I also have a remote starter solenoid which kills the large wire to the starter when not in use.
I admit, it's a little complicated but once I figured it all out, it became clear. Rob (crackedback) actually helped me out when I did it.
Here is what my battery box looks like. The starter solenoid is the black one, the CD solenoid is the chrome one. You can see the large red wire that goes to the starter coming off the starter sol. The CD sol. is only on when the cut off switch is on, you can see the smaller red wire going down to the switch. The larger red wire coming off the B+ side is to the terminal on the firewall. The large B+ cables go to the switch on the positive side per NHRA regs. The smaller blue wire is from the dash and is wired to the switch - it kills everything on the dash including the MSD. The yellow wire goes to the old starter relay in front to energize the solenoid on the starter. You need this if you have a mini starter - the solenoid will burn out if you keep it energized so that is the way to keep it off when not in use.
On the switch itself there is a jumper wire to connect the individual sides together. When the switch is thrown both the large and small studs turn on or off. If they are off, they are off, nothing is feeding it because both solenoids are killed with the switch.
You really can't do this any other way. I'm sure there will arguments like "you don't need to go through all that, you only need to yada yad yada". Trust me though, I went over and over it trying to make it less complicated but you can't, it won't work like it's supposed to.
I admit, it's a little complicated but once I figured it all out, it became clear. Rob (crackedback) actually helped me out when I did it.
Here is what my battery box looks like. The starter solenoid is the black one, the CD solenoid is the chrome one. You can see the large red wire that goes to the starter coming off the starter sol. The CD sol. is only on when the cut off switch is on, you can see the smaller red wire going down to the switch. The larger red wire coming off the B+ side is to the terminal on the firewall. The large B+ cables go to the switch on the positive side per NHRA regs. The smaller blue wire is from the dash and is wired to the switch - it kills everything on the dash including the MSD. The yellow wire goes to the old starter relay in front to energize the solenoid on the starter. You need this if you have a mini starter - the solenoid will burn out if you keep it energized so that is the way to keep it off when not in use.
On the switch itself there is a jumper wire to connect the individual sides together. When the switch is thrown both the large and small studs turn on or off. If they are off, they are off, nothing is feeding it because both solenoids are killed with the switch.
You really can't do this any other way. I'm sure there will arguments like "you don't need to go through all that, you only need to yada yad yada". Trust me though, I went over and over it trying to make it less complicated but you can't, it won't work like it's supposed to.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Here is a pic of the back of the switch. You can see the wire attachments that are explained above.
The two 'sides' of the switch are arranged with one large stud and an auxiliary stud connected to it. You can see the jumper wire connecting one 'side'. Throw the switch and both studs are dead.
The two 'sides' of the switch are arranged with one large stud and an auxiliary stud connected to it. You can see the jumper wire connecting one 'side'. Throw the switch and both studs are dead.
...............Thanks guys, this is a total race car...I have the ford type solenoid wired in in place of the mopar starter relay.......mini starter terminals are tied together......will be putting in MSD with a 7al-2 box..................kim.........
famous bob
mopar misfit
are you going to run an auto or four speed ? if auto, how are you going to make the n.starter sw. work ?
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Good question, forgot bout that. With mine, I had to keep the old relay up front for that. Kind of a P.I.T.A. and seems redundant. Plus you have wires running all the way back and front just to start the car.
The main thing that the Ford solenoid does is kill the big wire to the starter when it's not being used. If you run the wire inside the car, you kinda want the solenoid for that reason. If the wire is outside the cabin maybe it's less of an issue.
I got a lot of the ideas here from talking with the guy at Mad Electrical. Took a long time to understand and execute everything I ended up doing but again, once I figured it out, it all became clear to why things need to be set up this way.
The thing that makes wiring a cutoff switch with an alternator more difficult than it has to be is NHRA's rule that the switch has to turn off the positive side of the circuit rather than the ground side.
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
How many of you have had a tech guy actually ask you to put it in gear and hit the starter switch?
Also, I think most aftermarket shifters have a neutral starter switch in them.
My drag car has a B&M shifter with a neutral starter switch, I'm just too lazy to wire it in.
One of these days someone might call me on it, then I'll wire it in...
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
"Whether they check" IS NOT THE ISSUE. It is CLEARLY written in the RULES
There's a REASON this stuff is in the rules. It's to prevent people from being RUN OVER by a raging out of control race car in the pits.
"Too lazy to hook it up?" Christ that's a lame-*** excuse
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
So far as eliminating the Mopar relay, there exists a "sort of Ford" relay used on a few years of AMC/ Jeep. These had a total of FIVE terminals
The two large switch terminals
The regular Ford ign terminal (resistor bypass)
The regular Ford S terminal
And a fifth terminal for the ground on the neutral switch.
Here
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=318721
The two large switch terminals
The regular Ford ign terminal (resistor bypass)
The regular Ford S terminal
And a fifth terminal for the ground on the neutral switch.
Here
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=318721
Here's one of the AMC with NSS. AMC used Torqueflites. This is essentially a Ferd solenoid with one end of the coil hooked to that extra pin "out the back" instead of grounded at the bracket.
This "might be" an SS-590 Standard
A'nudder view
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
I agree. Wire the car within the rules.
They are written with safety in mind for you and the people coming to get you out of a wrecked race car.
...............Car is an automatic........I was gonna use a relay to trigger the ground when the shifter is in P/N.......shifter is a cuda slap stick............r am I wrong in thinking this way......kim.......
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
you can wire up the old Mopar relay or a Bosch relay, or you'll have to use the AMC / Jeep solenoid.
One way to do this is just leave your ignition switch / start / start relay wiring all as it is, except
Take the old start wire that went from the original relay to the starter. Run it to fire your Ford relay.
I assume you are still using the switch on the Torqueflite which is the most reliable.
you could of course use a switch on the shifter, and just run the ign switch start wire through it on the road to the Ford relay. Problem with that is if the shifter gets out of adjustment, you could end up starting the car in say, reverse
Several ways to skin this cat
One way to do this is just leave your ignition switch / start / start relay wiring all as it is, except
Take the old start wire that went from the original relay to the starter. Run it to fire your Ford relay.
I assume you are still using the switch on the Torqueflite which is the most reliable.
you could of course use a switch on the shifter, and just run the ign switch start wire through it on the road to the Ford relay. Problem with that is if the shifter gets out of adjustment, you could end up starting the car in say, reverse
Several ways to skin this cat
My Demon was totaled while it was parked in the staging lanes about 12 yrs. ago. I pulled up a spot and the person behind me cranked his car in gear and instead of hitting the brake they hit the gas. The estimate on my Demon was over $5600. I did not get anything.
turbofreek
batcrap crazy racing team
man that is fing heart breaking. sorry you had that happen. always think safety first. if your not safe your not gonna be around long enough to be fast. i still dont understand why alcohol is allowed at a racing venue.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
There is an "i" lug on the Ford solenoid for the ignition. I wired it so my original ignition switch wire goes to the i lug on the Ford solenoid. That wire is spliced where it comes out of the firewall and also goes to the relay on the inner fender. When the solenoid is energized by the ignition switch, it triggers the relay on the fender.
At least that's how I think I did it. :scratch:
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
How does this solve the neutral safety problem? Or to put this another way, I really don't understand what you did there
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
The NSS is still wired to the relay on the fender so it works as designed. I'm not using the relay on the fender to start the car but I still needed it to use the NSS. Does that make sense?
I am remembering now I have a Bosch relay in there somewhere too... don't mind me, I'm useless.
Too cold to go out and look right now and figure out an explanation. I wouldn't even know what to tell you at this point anyway, I'm confused myself. Sorry.
I just know it works and it did not work doing it any other way as the car would not start. I remember at one point checking the pins on the NSS with a test light to see what happened when the gear selector was in "x" position. That's all I got.
I've heard a lot of guys say they quit running their neutral safety switch because they always are coming out of adjustment, and they dont want to be caught in the staging lanes and the car not crank because of it.
This is on the switches that come with aftermarket shifters.
I have a solution to that. On my car, I wired in the neutral safety switch that comes with my Quarter Stick. Have only had one time in 2 years that it acted funky and the car would not start. They had called my class to the staging lanes, and only 4 of us were left. What did I do?
Reached up on the dash, and flipped an unlabeled momentary toggle switch that I had wired straight to the solenoid. I call it my "911 switch". It bypasses the neutral safety switch, and can be used in the event that the neutral safety switch malfunctions. Used it the rest of the night, and won the race. Fixed my switch the next day, and went back to using my regular starter button the rest of the year.
Just passing it along as an idea for someone else to use.
This is on the switches that come with aftermarket shifters.
I have a solution to that. On my car, I wired in the neutral safety switch that comes with my Quarter Stick. Have only had one time in 2 years that it acted funky and the car would not start. They had called my class to the staging lanes, and only 4 of us were left. What did I do?
Reached up on the dash, and flipped an unlabeled momentary toggle switch that I had wired straight to the solenoid. I call it my "911 switch". It bypasses the neutral safety switch, and can be used in the event that the neutral safety switch malfunctions. Used it the rest of the night, and won the race. Fixed my switch the next day, and went back to using my regular starter button the rest of the year.
Just passing it along as an idea for someone else to use.
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