Dale's Cuda Shop wire hose clamps not the correct size? - 1967 Dart 273

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Dana67Dart

Dana67Dart

The parts you don't add don't cause you no trouble
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Anyone have a problem using wire clamps?

I bought kit DC004 66-69 273-318-340 Hose Clamp kit 6-7 months ago, just put them on with a hose change. The kit came with 2 radiator hose clamps, 1 t-stat hose clamp, one water pump inlet hose clamp, 2 bypass hose clamps, and 4 heater hose clamps.

Two of the rad / water pump / t-stat housing clamps were the same size. The other two rad / water pump / t-stat housing clamps were a different size (slightly larger, like 3/4 to 1 wire thickness larger in diameter)

Both by-pass hose clamps had an ID the same as the OD of the Gates bypass hose that is available ( ~1.1")

The 4 heater hose clamps fit well on the 5/8 heater hose.

The T-stat housing is 1 year old and has no pitting, all other iron fittings / inlets have some pitting from age.

What works well...
1. The heater hoses, no leaks all 4 ends

2. The lower rad hose (I used the 2 smaller of the 4 hose clamps on both ends) no leaks either end

3. upper rad hose, radiator end, no leak (I used the 2 larger of the 4 hose clamps on both ends. Easiest to change in the future)

What doesn't work well...

1. The two larger hose clamps do not have as much clamping force as the two smaller ones. this is resulting in the t-stat cover leaking at the hose.

2. The by-pass clamps measure the same ID ~1.1" as the OD of the Gates hose at ~1.1" they will not work at all

I'm sure Dale's is a reputable business but they were not helpful at all with this issue, they only said that they sell the kit all the time and mine is the first issue they have had and that the water pump was the problem (it's not leaking there) and they never addressed the by-pass hose clamp size.

I ordered another wire clamp kit from another supplier and am eager to see the sizes that kit comes with.

The gates hoses (upper and lower rad) claim 1.5" ID all ends (no OD listed) It stands to reason that all 4 clamps should be the same ID?

The Gates bypass hose lists .8" ID (No OD listed) was the OE hose twice as thick?

20386 Lower Radiator
20602 Upper Radiator
19605 By-pass hose

Maybe I should have used the larger of the two on the radiator end of the upper and lower hoses and the smaller of the two on the WP inlet and t-stat housing?

Any and all thoughts welcome.
 
I have a set I purchased years ago (don't recall from who), the set had two different sizes for the radiator hoses, I couldn't even get the smaller ones on. No idea on how well they work as I just put them on.


Alan
 
I received a second set of the clamps from another source (Classic Industries) and when I opened the package I bust out laughing... Any one want to hazard a guess as to why???

The package inside was a Dale's Cuda Shop kit with a Classic Industries label placed below the DCS label

So now I have confirmation that the DCS kit is supposed to come with the following size clamps, regardless of it they will work on available hoses.

2x - 1.75"ID (nominal) Radiator hose (too large for Gates hoses)
2x - 1.5" ID (nominal) Radiator hose (fits nicely on Gates hoses)
2X - 1.1" ID (nominal) Bypass hose (too large for Gates hoses)
4X - .75" ID (nominal) Heater hose (fits nicely on bulk 5/8 heater hose)

I'm trying to find a spring clamp that will be the correct ID for the bypass hose. but now i have 4x 1.5" clamps and my thermostat housing leak will be gone.
 
Dana67Dart said:
I received a second set of the clamps from another source (Classic Industries) and when I opened the package I bust out laughing... Any one want to hazard a guess as to why???

The package inside was a Dale's Cuda Shop kit with a Classic Industries label placed below the DCS label

So now I have confirmation that the DCS kit is supposed to come with the following size clamps, regardless of it they will work on available hoses.

2x - 1.75"ID (nominal) Radiator hose (too large for Gates hoses)
2x - 1.5" ID (nominal) Radiator hose (fits nicely on Gates hoses)
2X - 1.1" ID (nominal) Bypass hose (too large for Gates hoses)
4X - .75" ID (nominal) Heater hose (fits nicely on bulk 5/8 heater hose)

I'm trying to find a spring clamp that will be the correct ID for the bypass hose. but now i have 4x 1.5" clamps and my thermostat housing leak will be gone.
Click to expand...
McMaster sells these but in bags of 25

Alan
 
Just ordered 15/16", 1" and 1 1/8" Will see what works.

Saw a link (year one I think) that showed 1.5"' for upper radiator hose and 1 3/4" for lower radiator hose. Gates shows 1.5 for all hose ends upper or lower.

When I change the clamps out this week I will measure the outlet fittings. Maybe the lower IS larger?
 
Dana67Dart said:
Just ordered 15/16", 1" and 1 1/8" Will see what works.

Saw a link (year one I think) that showed 1.5"' for upper radiator hose and 1 3/4" for lower radiator hose. Gates shows 1.5 for all hose ends upper or lower.

When I change the clamps out this week I will measure the outlet fittings. Maybe the lower IS larger?
Click to expand...
Last week I checked my radiator hoses (off the car) and they were the same, don't recall the size.


Alan
 
Dana67Dart said:
The package inside was a Dale's Cuda Shop kit with a Classic Industries label placed below the DCS label
Click to expand...
I am not suprised. All the suppliers only need one manufacturing source. It wouldn't make good business sense for many manufacturers to produce the same part. Your bypass hose is probably a different outside diameter (wall thickness) than the original designed hose that the clamps are made to work with.
 
Cuda Al said:
Last week I checked my radiator hoses (off the car) and they were the same, don't recall the size.
Click to expand...

I got myself in this situation because I decided to go with spring clamps. I figured all new hoses (old ones were from 1998, newest date I could find) and new spring clips would be a good combo.

All of my rad hoses were the same OD (nominal) upper and lower, both ends. Maybe OE added thickness to the lower hose???

I am guessing that the OE bypass hose is significantly thicker than the Gates hose for the supplied clamps to work. Once I get the McMaster clamps, I will drain the system change out the clamps as needed and see what works.

I am 99% sure the 1.5" clamps on the upper rad hose will solve the thermostat cover leak.

What a pain the ARSS!
 
toolmanmike said:
Your bypass hose is probably a different outside diameter (wall thickness) than the original designed hose that the clamps are made to work with.
Click to expand...
That is my thinking as well. Not sure if any of the aftermarket by pass hoses are that thickness. I wanted OE look and never figured on hose wall thickness being an issue
 
Year One calls out the By-Pass nipple to be 3/4" and heater to be 5/8" the clamps measure 1.1" so those must have been some thick wall bypass hoses back in the day.
 
I'll be going through this soon, there was a larger bypass hose used in later years.


Alan
 
I think whom ever put this kit together in the first place never tried them on an engine and was going off someone else notes.


Alan
 
Cuda Al said:
I think whom ever put this kit together in the first place never tried them on an engine and was going off someone else notes.
Click to expand...
The guy at Dale's blamed the reman cast iron water pump.
 
Just got done replacing the too large (1.75") rad hose clamps with the 1.5" smaller ones and the 1 1/8 inch ones I bought from McMastercarr

I took some measurements of the related fittings etc.

By-pass hose nipple on manifold - 0.809" OD
By-pass hose nipple on water pump - 0.760" OD
Upper radiator nipple - 1.513" OD (Dodge Pentastar logo & 38086 on top cap)
Thermostat cover nipple - 1.519" OD (Classic Ind MP6500)
Rad Hose clamp - 1.519" ID (Dales & Classic Ind kit DC004)
By-pass hose clamp - 0.95" ID (McMasterCarr, HC18ST ZD, 1 1/8 Constant-tension hose clamp, Zinc Dichromate, yellow)
By-pass hose - 1.1" OD - ~0.80 ID - both ends (Gates 19605)
Upper Rad hose - 1.87" OD - ~1.5 ID (Gates 20602)


I did not remove the lower hose but it has two Rad Hose clamp - 1.519" ID (Dales & Classic Ind kit DC004) and a Gates 20386 hose. The Water pump is a cast iron re-manufactured pump. I do not know if it is a re-man OE pump or a re-man new aftermarket pump. BUT I did not have any leaks with the 1.519 ID clamps on the water pump or on the lower radiator nipple.

I have not pressurized the system yet so I don't know if the bypass hose clamp will do its job.

Update to follow!
 
Did they hold?...
and did you say you are running two wire clamps at each end of the radiator hose?
I just changed out all the hoses on a 340 car and went with the wire spring clamps with fingers crossed... since all the hoses were new I thought I might have a better chance at good seals without leaks.
(Car had previously had the screw type strap clamps but I want to go with original as much as possible so decided to try the wire spring type)
Just took it out for a second test drive and got on the gas a bit to test and found everything held except the upper radiator hose sprayed out past the hose clamp right where the two ends pass each other.
Thought I would have to go back to the screw type strap at that location but your post has me wondering if putting a second wire spring clamp in next to the first rotated 180 degrees might do the trick?
Anyone know what the solution was back in the day when these cars were new/almost new?
 
I haven't had a drop using the spring clamps (16lb cap) as described above

Sorry for the confusion when I said two clamps I meant that there was one at each end of the hose for a total of two of the smaller (1.5") clamps that came in the DCS kit.

Fishing68 said:
everything held except the upper radiator hose sprayed out past the hose clamp right where the two ends pass each other.
Click to expand...

Did you use all 4 clamps in one kit or did you buy a second kit and use the smaller (1.5") two from both kits?

The DCS kit comes with 2 x 1.5" and 2 x 1.75" springs. The 1.75 springs are too big. (I had the same situation when I first started, I used the larger ones on the upper hose as it would be easier to change if they did not hold and neither did. bought another kit and used the 2 x 1.5" on the upper hose and the 1-1/8 bought from McMasterCarr for the return.)
 
OK. Will give it a shot. The set I bought looked like there were 4 large clamps all the same size that I used on the upper and lower radiator hoses but honestly I am not sure and the seller did not specify the sizes only that the assortment was a kit for the car. I will do some checking and order up some a 1.5" for the upper.
 
I did just replace the radiator cap as well... 16lbs but haven't tested it. Don't think it would be and issue though because the temp was normal range when the leak occurred.
 
Just confirmed the set I put on had different sizes for upper and lower radiator hoses. Just put in an order for the 1.5" clamps. With any luck should be the solution. Thanks for the thread!
 
toolmanmike said:
I am not suprised. All the suppliers only need one manufacturing source. It wouldn't make good business sense for many manufacturers to produce the same part. Your bypass hose is probably a different outside diameter (wall thickness) than the original designed hose that the clamps are made to work with.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's a big problem. When I worked for O'Reilly, their hose brand (Master Pro) was scary thin wall hose. Surprisingly, the Gates was "not much" if any better....only more uniform, but not really thicker. I've seen some Master Pro hoses better than some Gates and vice versa, so I think they come from the same factory and possibly are even the same hoses, one just priced higher for the name brand. It's getting more difficult everyday to fins quality parts anymore.
 
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