Damaged Torque Converter Ring Gear

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d55dave

d55dave

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So I have a customers transmission here for some work. He brought with it a brand new quality 3500 torque converter. This is a 20 plus year old, never run converter. Somewhere along the line a single tooth has been knocked off the ring gear. I have considered sending it away to have the ring gear replaced, but by time I factor shipping and the repair cost, I am approaching 50 to 75% of a replacement converter cost.

So my question is, has anyone ever tig welded up a single tooth and filed it back to shape? Has it lasted? Is one tooth missing detrimental? I am hesitant about going through all the work to assemble it as is to only have to pull it out again , but wonder if it can be tig'd back to shape?
 
Sounds like a lot of work for a possible negative return. I'm not sure I would try to fix it if a new one is that close to be had. .....and I love fixin stuff.
 
If you like fixing stuff...FSM says grind the welds and hammer the old one off. Clean up the traces and get a new ring gear, Flywheel / Flexplate Ring Gear, Chrysler TF-8 A-727. RG-130, CH-RG-130T TF8 A727 | eBay
pop it in the oven to expand it slightly and put it on, weld to taste. Heck for that amount of work, Id try and form a tooth too. My Dad had a bad ring gear on a Pontiac, about every 10th time he would try and start it, it would just spin. If he kept hitting it it would eventually catch and start. Weld rod is pretty hard.
 
Nope.

20 year old converter.

Broken tooth.

The answer, in my opinion is a new converter.
Or get the old ring fixed. Who wants an old converter when the new tech is way better.

Charge him for a new one or charge him to get the old one fixed.

Do not put the repair on you.

Our BBC high comp engine eats the ring gear. If it could be welded, I'd be doing it.
 
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I've migged and ground like five teeth in a row. that's how they usually wear down.
 
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Cope said:
Nope.

20 year old converter.

Broken tooth.

The answer, in my opinion is a new converter.
Or get the old ring fixed. Who wants an old converter when the new tech is way better.

Charge him for a new one or charge him to get the old one fixed.

Do not put the repair on you.

Our BBC high comp engine eats the ring gear. If it could be welded, I'd be doing it.
Click to expand...

We had a discussion on here last month about my ring gear having a tooth missing . There was 3-4 guys all said they had done it successfully , even on big diesel engines , one said he did 5 teeth in a row successfully.
I have a tooth gone , the starter hung for a second after setting all winter and knocked it off when it let go , I heard it. Fortunatley I had
rolled the motor , just to move the valve springs , mid way in the period , and the tooth is in a diff location from where the engine usually stops when I kill it . I hasn`t been a problem so far !
I have been told that a engine usually stops in 3-4 specific locations when shutting down, don't know about that, never checked . ??????
So far so good.
Lenny will get my business "if" I have to replace it .
 
I have one tooth welding and ground down on the convertor in my truck. It's been that way for the better part of 6 years now. If you listen real close you can hear it when it comes around but it has never giving me a problem. But for a customer I would just grind off the welds and weld a new ring onto it. I have done this before and like pistha said, just warm it up first, knock it on straight and weld it up. Very easy to replace.
 
d55dave said:
So I have a customers transmission here for some work. He brought with it a brand new quality 3500 torque converter. This is a 20 plus year old, never run converter. Somewhere along the line a single tooth has been knocked off the ring gear. I have considered sending it away to have the ring gear replaced, but by time I factor shipping and the repair cost, I am approaching 50 to 75% of a replacement converter cost.

So my question is, has anyone ever tig welded up a single tooth and filed it back to shape? Has it lasted? Is one tooth missing detrimental? I am hesitant about going through all the work to assemble it as is to only have to pull it out again , but wonder if it can be tig'd back to shape?
Click to expand...
Send it to T.C.S. in Langley. Cheap to ship(Canadian $$), and probably relatively inexpensive to replace again in Canadian $$. I find it odd that to replace a damaged ring gear is going to cost 50-75% of a replacement converter. Unless you want it cut open for inspection, or the ring gear is attached to the body in some oddball way, the converter typically doesn't need to be cut open to replace the ring gear, unless it's been filled with oil. Call Paul at T.C.S. 1-800-960-1177.
It would be interesting to me to know who's brand of converter it is.
 
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Yes, I spoke with TCS. This is actually one of their converters, a bracket master but 20 plus years old. They want around $200 to replace the ring gear, and they also suggest that, as it is unknown, and old (as was mentioned above, converter technology has changed quite a bit) it would be another $300 plus to cut it open, inspect and repair. So, at $500 as a basic cost, plus shipping (no more greyhound here....) it is questionable if it is worth it. It almost makes sense to just buy a new one that is known, which leads me and my cheap budget minded self to wonder if I can fix the one tooth. Ultimately though, it is up to the owner.
 
d55dave said:
Yes, I spoke with TCS. This is actually one of their converters, a bracket master but 20 plus years old. They want around $200 to replace the ring gear, and they also suggest that, as it is unknown, and old (as was mentioned above, converter technology has changed quite a bit) it would be another $300 plus to cut it open, inspect and repair. So, at $500 as a basic cost, plus shipping (no more greyhound here....) it is questionable if it is worth it. It almost makes sense to just buy a new one that is known, which leads me and my cheap budget minded self to wonder if I can fix the one tooth. Ultimately though, it is up to the owner.
Click to expand...

Hughs convertors wanted $300 to replace mine , Lenny at ultimate was close to the same thing. He wanted to build me one for $975 ,
I think it was . If my lathe was big enough , I`d do it myself I think.
 
Grind what's left of that tooth to clean metal and go past the bottom of the spaces so that your new tooth is supported by a new steel foundation. Almost fill the entire bottom of the gap with weld, then grind off the spaces until you have a decent gear tooth. If you don't do it, you will always regret wasting money. It's better to have a tooth that's a little too small than one that's a little thick or tall because that could stress it and break it off. I've tried just building up a single tooth starting from the bottom of the break and building up a section of weld that's only as thick as the tooth, but that's a mistake because you are relying on a tiny area to have penetration and support. By grinding down past the bottom of the tooth, you are laying a foundation for the tooth and gaining a foundation of penetration so that the tooth won't break off right at the bottom where so many try to weld it.
 
famous bob said:
We had a discussion on here last month about my ring gear having a tooth missing . There was 3-4 guys all said they had done it successfully , even on big diesel engines , one said he did 5 teeth in a row successfully.
I have a tooth gone , the starter hung for a second after setting all winter and knocked it off when it let go , I heard it. Fortunatley I had
rolled the motor , just to move the valve springs , mid way in the period , and the tooth is in a diff location from where the engine usually stops when I kill it . I hasn`t been a problem so far !
I have been told that a engine usually stops in 3-4 specific locations when shutting down, don't know about that, never checked . ??????
So far so good.
Lenny will get my business "if" I have to replace it .
Click to expand...

"I have been told that a engine usually stops in 3-4 specific locations when shutting down, don't know about that, never checked . ??????"

This is absolutely true, but one tooth being gone can be really hard on the next tooth even though the starter is only turning through that spot and never initially engages that one spot .
 
d55dave said:
Yes, I spoke with TCS. This is actually one of their converters, a bracket master but 20 plus years old. They want around $200 to replace the ring gear, and they also suggest that, as it is unknown, and old (as was mentioned above, converter technology has changed quite a bit) it would be another $300 plus to cut it open, inspect and repair. So, at $500 as a basic cost, plus shipping (no more greyhound here....) it is questionable if it is worth it. It almost makes sense to just buy a new one that is known, which leads me and my cheap budget minded self to wonder if I can fix the one tooth. Ultimately though, it is up to the owner.
Click to expand...
With it being a T.C.S. converter, it will have a serial number on it. I know you originally said it was new although 20 years old. It's just me, but I find it difficult to believe that someone 20 years ago spent the money to get the converter built and then never used it. Like I said, it's just my doubting Thomas mind. All T.C.S high stalls were serial numbered, and we kept a build sheet on them. With the serial number, you can find out how many times it has been in for any work and who sent it in for the work. They might still have that build sheet. Your right of course on spending much more than getting the ring gear replaced. Technology has changed big time in the industry. It's no longer viable to just bend the pump vanes, trim the stator and bingo, one high stall. There's a lot more to it now and the customer ends up with a superior product. Keep in mind, T.C.S. is one of the very few high stall builders that warranty them.
 
transman said:
With it being a T.C.S. converter, it will have a serial number on it. I know you originally said it was new although 20 years old. It's just me, but I find it difficult to believe that someone 20 years ago spent the money to get the converter built and then never used it. Like I said, it's just my doubting Thomas mind. All T.C.S high stalls were serial numbered, and we kept a build sheet on them. With the serial number, you can find out how many times it has been in for any work and who sent it in for the work. They might still have that build sheet. Your right of course on spending much more than getting the ring gear replaced. Technology has changed big time in the industry. It's no longer viable to just bend the pump vanes, trim the stator and bingo, one high stall. There's a lot more to it now and the customer ends up with a superior product. Keep in mind, T.C.S. is one of the very few high stall builders that warranty them.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand. It has a serial number that I quoted to TCS on the phone. It is a four digit number, based on that I was told it is a very old converter. He didn't offer to dig through the paper archives to look it up (I have had them do this for me before), and while they will happily change the ring gear, he suggested that due to its age (presumably he could tell from the short serial number) it doesnt have any "modern" technology in it and it should be opened up....

It has "bracket master" (a TCS name) painted on it and you can see where the small round TCS sticker used to be.

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IF the customer prefers this converter then fix it and run it. If you help him pick a different converter and he doesn't like it; it's all YOUR fault.
 
That Ebay ring wont fit that thing for nuttin'. wonder if you could weld a 'crown' on that tooth, like a crown on a tooth that extends down into the root on the sides...Dont know the clearances but it would have to be rebalanced, if your concerned about it breaking it off. Looks like a pretty eazy fix if you got the welder. Id try it on my own ride but its your customer.
 
Use a diamond dresser on your grinding wheel to get the desired shape,will make grinding the new tooth that much easier.
If its a stock size ring gear,replacing it yourself is about the same risk as welding up the tooth.

Wait, this a high compression engine? Tooth broke because torque was dropped? Its a gamble all around,what could have happened internally when it bounced ?
 
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