Day two of the 64 Valiant

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ChazRam

ChazRam

1964 Valiant V200
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
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Location
Carol Stream Illinois
After a little rest after a bad road trip to pick up my 64 Valiant my thoughts are on what caused the car to breakdown and have to be towed home.
1) Vapor Lock, exactly what are the symptoms?
2) Weak Coil, car has and aftermarket electronic ignition with a Crane Fireball LX91 Coil. There is spark but should this coil produce a hot spark that about knock me off my feet or just like a normal coil?
Wiring, like connections or fusible link(s)?

Symptoms, car seemed to have an issue after fueling up at least once on the trip. 1st time was after a lunch stop. Car sat for an hour after a 150 mile drive, 2nd time, was after a short stop, 3rd time and the final one was right after a 200 mile drive and right after fueling up. The first two times the car just cranked like there was no spark, just cranked. Fiddled around with the car and both times it started. Last time the car started right up and just shut off about a block from the gas station. Could not get it to restart. Car had power and did turn over but would not start. I did get the car to fire up for just a moment right before the car was loaded on a tow truck but the car only ran for like 10 seconds and died again, then cranked only again. One thing that seemed funny was when the car did start it was kind of like the car got flooded but did not blow a bunch of smoke and the car did not smell from too much gas. I'm at a loss right now. Leaving the car alone for a couple of days, then will begin to troubleshoot. Anything I should be zeroing in on or any ideas of something I might be missing? I know (air) (sperk) (fuel) is the rule. Just trying to figure out which is the culprit. Thanks in advance for any help.

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abdywgn said:
look at the sock in the tank. maybe it's plugging up?
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had a friends 70 dart that happened to.. drove us nuts for quite a while.. if it sat it started right up and ran great.. then out of nowhere it would just quit.. should have seen the crap in that tank..lol
 
I had a bud, a mopar mechanic, that bought a good running 318 Duster from me. I drove it 120 mi EVERY day. Only thing is it needed a a new timing chain. He had issues. Shut if off sometimes, and wold NOT start! He later found a dead bug in the hard fuel line (the ling one under the car) at a bend. It can happen. Must be why I learned to clean the tank, replace the pickup, and blow air all the way thru that line.
But heck what do I know.
 
abodyjoe said:
had a friends 70 dart that happened to.. drove us nuts for quite a while.. if it sat it started right up and ran great.. then out of nowhere it would just quit.. should have seen the crap in that tank..lol
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this one runs great, just does not like to start after sitting awhile. going to be looking at the tank, line, pump, and filter.
 
barbee6043 said:
I had a bud, a mopar mechanic, that bought a good running 318 Duster from me. I drove it 120 mi EVERY day. Only thing is it needed a a new timing chain. He had issues. Shut if off sometimes, and wold NOT start! He later found a dead bug in the hard fuel line (the ling one under the car) at a bend. It can happen. Must be why I learned to clean the tank, replace the pickup, and blow air all the way thru that line.
But heck what do I know.
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might be going through the fuel system, thanks. Just not sure this is the problem. Going to know once I start digging into this problem.
 
Nice car! On any car that's been sitting a while and then has problems running my first thoughts would be fuel related.
 
ChazRam said:
After a little rest after a bad road trip to pick up my 64 Valiant my thoughts are on what caused the car to breakdown and have to be towed home.
1) Vapor Lock, exactly what are the symptoms?
2) Weak Coil, car has and aftermarket electronic ignition with a Crane Fireball LX91 Coil. There is spark but should this coil produce a hot spark that about knock me off my feet or just like a normal coil?
Wiring, like connections or fusible link(s)?

Symptoms, car seemed to have an issue after fueling up at least once on the trip. 1st time was after a lunch stop. Car sat for an hour after a 150 mile drive, 2nd time, was after a short stop, 3rd time and the final one was right after a 200 mile drive and right after fueling up. The first two times the car just cranked like there was no spark, just cranked. Fiddled around with the car and both times it started. Last time the car started right up and just shut off about a block from the gas station. Could not get it to restart. Car had power and did turn over but would not start. I did get the car to fire up for just a moment right before the car was loaded on a tow truck but the car only ran for like 10 seconds and died again, then cranked only again. One thing that seemed funny was when the car did start it was kind of like the car got flooded but did not blow a bunch of smoke and the car did not smell from too much gas. I'm at a loss right now. Leaving the car alone for a couple of days, then will begin to troubleshoot. Anything I should be zeroing in on or any ideas of something I might be missing? I know (air) (sperk) (fuel) is the rule. Just trying to figure out which is the culprit. Thanks in advance for any help.

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I see the first culprit. Had the same problem. It’s the fuel line running from the carb to the fuel pump. Too close to the headers. Your fuel is boiling. Might try some insulation sleeve to get by until you figure out a better route to the fuel pump.
 
I'd also wonder about running hot coolant to the base of the intake under the carb. Factory heat riser directs most hot air away from the carb and out the exhaust after the engine warms up; I'm thinking you have hot coolant heating the carb all the time, and it probably heats up even more when you shut the motor off after a hot run.

I'd try bypassing that and running that heater hose directly to the firewall. Car will run like crap when cold, but it might deal with the heat better.
 
Have you done some actual real world diagnosis? Remove the air cleaner and pump the throttle to check for a strong stream of gas. Remove a plug wire, put a screwdriver in the plug boot and hold the screwdriver close to ground while someone spins the engine and check for spark. Then of course, all of this has to happen at the right time. Pull the #1 plug and bump the engine until it just begins to blow your finger out of the hole. Then bring the timing mark on around and line it up with zero on the mark. Remove the distributor cap and verify it points to #1. These are simple beasts and diagnosis is equally simple. Do you have a factory service manual? Very cool car. I have a 64 as well and I love mine.
 
What RRR said, start with basic diagnostics & expand from there. Throws parts & money at it will just frustrate you. One change at a time until you find the culprit.
 
dart4forte said:
I see the first culprit. Had the same problem. It’s the fuel line running from the carb to the fuel pump. Too close to the headers. Your fuel is boiling. Might try some insulation sleeve to get by until you figure out a better route to the fuel pump.
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Any suggestions where I could run the line? I was going to bend a line up from the pump, along the outer edge of the valve cover to 90 degrees from the carb and go straight across the intake to the carb with a 90 degree bend to the fuel inlet. I did not set the car up but when I looked at it I figured the fan would provide cooling so I did not question the fuel line position.
 
ChazRam said:
Any suggestions where I could run the line? I was going to bend a line up from the pump, along the outer edge of the valve cover to 90 degrees from the carb and go straight across the intake to the carb with a 90 degree bend to the fuel inlet. I did not set the car up but when I looked at it I figured the fan would provide cooling so I did not question the fuel line position.
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I wouldn't do anything until you actually verify the problem.
 
Well Rusty, since I'm replacing old parts like the tank, pickup, grommet, blanket, strap, line, fuel pump this is a small deviation from what is on the car. If I'm boiling fuel in the line I'd like that to not happen. From the perspective I'm standing in now this screams fuel issues, car had spark when it would not start. The tank looks kinda beat, the pickup is very rusty on the outside so these two items are old. I did this same thing to my Dart and had no regrets. Figured lightning can strike twice.
 
ChazRam said:
Well Rusty, since I'm replacing old parts like the tank, pickup, grommet, blanket, strap, line, fuel pump this is a small deviation from what is on the car. If I'm boiling fuel in the line I'd like that to not happen. From the perspective I'm standing in now this screams fuel issues, car had spark when it would not start. The tank looks kinda beat, the pickup is very rusty on the outside so these two items are old. I did this same thing to my Dart and had no regrets. Figured lightning can strike twice.
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That's the whole point of my responses. How do you know you're boiling fuel? Because someone on an internet forum said you were? All you need to do is use the diagnostics I outlined earlier and you will find the problem. If you simply shotgun parts at it, you may not find what's wrong.
 
I get what you are saying. This is an upgrade to old parts is all, really. I was planning on doing this anyhow for the most part. I think and I believe most of the issues are whats inside that tank. Just gut instinct tells me the culprit is rust and other things collecting in the tank. This is due to the car sitting a lot and the tank not being over 1/4 of a tank and me filling this tank to the rim with brim and in doing so I released this crud clinging to the top of the inside of the tank. Also the fumes by the back of the car are strong. Thinking the top of the tank might be thin, maybe a pinhole or two possible. My throwing parts is on precaution more than anything else. Sporadic fuel Guage has me thinking sender is getting weak. So at the same time just going for the line, pump and filter just to round things off. I have had a couple of folks stop by to see the car and they both made mention about the fuel line being in a bad place. I have an idea to run my own fuel line from the pump to the carb. I was planning on going the route of my brothers 440 Coronet R/T. Running a short line out of the pump going up, install my fuel filter behind the alternator, run the rest of the line up and around the outside of the valve cover til its almost even with the carb, adding a couple of 90 degree bends and hook it to the carb. Want to do a dual setup running a vacuum line in the same fashion from the carb to the distributor to eliminate any lines going over the valve cover. Of course this is all in planning stages. Back to the problem issue, I'm going to siphon the fuel out of the tank, inspect it and plan the repairs from there. Still feel its origin is from the tank so thats the first point of attack.
 
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